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Bill Maher's new rules.

posted by PorridgeGun
5/22/2006 6:46:02 PM

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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Bobmer : LVL 1: VP 1: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 4 votes

1396 days 23 hours ago...

Good to watch if you pay attention to news.

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AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 5 votes

1396 days 23 hours ago...

That was excellent. Everyone should listen to this one. The people who want to run our countries treat us like we are ideots. How about adressing real issues. How about we vote for people who are actualy smart.

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hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) -3 votes

1396 days 19 hours ago...

Won't happen. All swing voters are idiots, and since all true right wingers and left wingers have known what they believe about politics and economics since they were kids, the idiotic majority gets their opinions from other people and vote based on their emotions, rather than reason.

Seriously, I think that if we just made having an average IQ a prerequisite to suffrage the politicians would quit trying to get the dummy votes and tell us what they are really thinking and why, and have real debates instead of the dog and pony show they got now.

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maida : LVL 20: VP 2.9: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 4 votes

1395 days 17 hours ago...

couldn't be more right. We need to get all the idiots in the country to listen to something like this, rather then debating about 'intelligent' design.

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LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 1 votes

1395 days 16 hours ago...

hahajohnnyb --->

Echhhh ... Do you remember , how it used to be a loooooong loooong time ago in Greece ? The REAL DEMOCRACY ? A country devided into the small administration centres , what contribute to a country only in tax and military service in times of war . People gathered up in a marketplace once a day to listen to politic proposals and shout their 'Yay !' or 'Nay !' or whatever did they shout in those times . Simple , straight and right to the point , no messing with elections , every proposal is heard , discussed and democraticly approved .
What happened to it ? And to think , that in our technologically advanced times nobody can organize something like that .

[edit ] Give everyone an electronic id card and electronic voting card . Put 'Voting Booth' in supermarkets and shops . You cannot buy shit , till your personal voting card tells that you have voted on all 'Daily questions' in 'Voting Booth' . You cannot vote 'yes' or 'no' , before you heard 3 main positions for or against the proposal , you have to stand there and listen to shit for 5 minutes , before voting . Yes , everyone will be pissed off , that government steals 0,5 - 1 hour of their life daily , but that's democracy . At least nobody will have a right to bitch about decisions that do not suit them .

[edit] Those assholes who like to get their shit on weekend for a whole week will have to spend 2-3 hours to answer to all questions of that week . Those who don't like losing their precious time can vote on their lunch breaks , while eating cheeseburger .

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AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 2 votes

1395 days 16 hours ago...

@ hahajohnnyb
So, according to you; all swing voters are idiots, all right wingers are idiots, all left wingers are idiots. So, according to you, everybody who votes is an idiot.

Why are swing voters idiots?

Your arguments lack... a little something. Logic I think the word is. Your are obviously a self proclaimed intellectual, or am I completely wrong about you?

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hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) -2 votes

1395 days 15 hours ago...

Labourer,

I'm not a big fan of Democracy, because a democracy is nothing but a tyranny of the majority. Also in the system that you are discribing it could never work, because few people have the time to study and understand all the day to day mundane issues that our federal govt. has to deal with. Even Legislators do not have time to understand all the issues, so they branch off into smaller committees to study the issues, write laws and the budget.

I really like the outline of the Republic of the United States. I think that it is the best outline for a government that has ever been concieved, but I think that we have strayed too far from the principles of the republic in favor of short sighted political gains.

@ahumbleknight: Never said that all Right-wingers and left wingers were idiots, per se. I said that people who do not know what they believe are idiots. What separates these two groups of thought is profound ideals, in that the left thinks that it is the Governments job to do everything that it can to help people, while the right thinks that the government should do as little as possible, so long as it maintains the security and liberty of the citizens.

These ideals do not mix well, which is why Democrats and Republicans agree about almost nothing. So if you are a swing voter you're an idiot because you do not know what you believe and are voting because of a small handful of issues that you think concern you. Hence, the gay marriage debate.

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LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 1 votes

1395 days 14 hours ago...

hahajohnnyb --->
Yeah , I know , but then again the whole system will lead to basic political and economical education , after all the dimwits will have to spend at least 0,5 hours each day , listening to variuos political opinions , which is good . The whole system should also stimulate political activity of each person and give him a feeling of participating in a whole process and subsiquently create interest in politics . And also those questions doesn't have to be on the level of brainsurgery or 'help the mayor form a new budget for next year' , just short questions to determine a way of development , with description of cons and pros , done by 3 major parties .

Call me naive , but I believe that person who can read and knows basic mathematics can learn from his mistakes , think and decide (right or wrong) what's best for him now and even what's best in a long run . Even more so , if he has to do it on a daily basis . Plus if his head is allright , he will actially remember what did he vote yesterday , and compare it to this day decisions . A huge difference between voting each day and once in 4 years . Now people get all the ammount of bullshit 3 months before voting and elect people , whose attitude they like more to decide what's best for them in next 4 years . Is it better ?

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klyfer : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) -5 votes

1395 days 14 hours ago...

lame

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AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 2 votes

1395 days 12 hours ago...

hahajohnnyb

I don't like what we have now and foolishly claim is democracy. I agree with you on the state of the current system. I do not however agree that swing voters are idiots. They are choosing their vote on current issues. Not basing their decision on being a rightly or lefty. It is the swing voter that makes the difference. The majority of a country votes for their favourite party, no matter what. They are supporters of that party. If it was not for swing voters, then you would see the same party in power indefinitely. It is the swing voters that parties pitch to. They already have the lifers in their pockets. Swing voters vote upon many different things. You can hardly classify them as idiots just because they haven’t chosen a 'side' in a system that is not supposed to be about sides.

Also, I am not from the USA. In my country, there are shit loads of parties that all differ in all policies. I don't like the way people vote (short term vision). I don't like the way any party plays the politics game. Democracy, like every other political ideology, is fundamentally flawed.

The main flaws in democracy are two fold:
First; short term thinking. Every election and every government in only about one thing, being in power. Because of this, they are only interested in looking as far forward in the future as the next election. Long term > 20 years. None of this "long term goal that will not see results for 4 to 6 years" crap.
Second; capitalism. Capitalism will take over every democracy. It will happen. It is happening. It is just the way things are. Democracy as it is being implemented in any country in the world is flawed and will be taken over by capitalist views. Corporation will become the greatest influence on decision making. It is happening in my country :'(. It has already happened in the USA.

I also think that the person who is running my country should be smarter than me. If they are not then they just wont get my vote. I don't want to see the leader making an ass of himself. I don't like the idea of being able to make better decisions than the leader of my country.

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eveningstar : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 2 votes

1395 days 12 hours ago...

Republic doesn't eliminate tyranny of the majority simply because it's representational, in fact if anything, it legitimizes oligarchy by using mob rule to justify the position of the oligarchs.

The only positive aspect of Republic is that there are codes which protect the rights of the individual (and thus minorities) from the irrational opinions of the majority. Federal government is not needed for this, only an actual education of the populous as to what their intrinsic freedoms should be, and how to recognise when they're being infringed upon. Rather than having someone who's supposed to represent them do so as and when it suits their political career.

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hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 0 votes

1395 days 12 hours ago...

Nothing is going to eliminate mob rule or oligarchy from influencing the policies of a government, nor should it. The beautiful thing about the idea of a republic is that it limits the power of the mob, the money and itself.

I do not understand the bias against Corporations, as if they are some sort of intensically evil all powerful entities. Corporations are quite democratic. Every shareholder has a vote and anyone can become a shareholder even if they do not live in the Country that the corporation is based. Everyone can take part in the profits that corporations generate, all they have to do is buy a share of stock. Corporations create a lot of jobs, and a lot of tax revenue. Seems to me that they are a fundamentally good thing.

I also don't the bias against capitalism, and yes ahumbleknight, the United States is run by capitalist principles. We were founded by a corporation, for Christ sake, The Virginia Company. Look at the $ symbol, usually it has 2 bars through an S, its intended to look like the US intials super imposed over each other.

Capitalism is fundamentally a good thing because it lets each individual do whatever they please with their money, and those who offer the greatest benefits make the most money. Capitalism is based on the premise of individual rights, such as the right to own private property. Capitalism fosters individual rights because its survival depends on these rights.

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eveningstar : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 0 votes

1395 days 12 hours ago...

Capitalism isn't based on property rights of the individual, but on protecting bourgeois property rights and thereby preventing people who don't own land from voluntarily associating with others, because they are forced to be dependant upon the consent of another (someone with the power to grant them access to the means which they need to work at/on) to survive.

Land can only be owned in a capitalist system, there's no justification for it beyond "State permits me the power". Same with intellectual property rights and other means of production.

Corporations aren't democratic. If they were democratic, they would be organised via grassroots democratic methods, by the workers themselves, and not managed oligarchically. Corporations are Republican/Oligarchical, like the systems they exist with in.

And mob rule can be avoided through having a politically active populous. Throughout history, those few in charge have preyed on, cultivated, incited and further preyed on the ignorance of the majority, and the fear that is a product of that ignorance. It's the same with religion as well. And the way to having a politically active populous is to cut off the self-proclaimed head of society, State. But first training the various limbs, organs and appendages to work independant of that which they have been made to be dependant upon.

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AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 2 votes

1395 days 12 hours ago...

Corporations are not evil. They are run by shareholders who want one thing. Profits. More money. That is the sole drive of any and every corporation.

There is one thing that capitalism does not take into consideration. One very important thing. The social needs of the individual. Things like schools, roads, welfare, health. Sure, you could say that the corporations pay for these in wages and taxes. That is true. But corporations also try their very best not to. If they had their way, which is the way of a capitalist country, they would not have to. The more power over the government that corporations get, the less taxes they pay, the less they are responsible for their employees. Do you see what I am getting at?

Another problem with capitalism is separation of class. There is a common belief that in a capitalist country any man can become rich and famous. A land of possibilities. This is both true and a lie. While this fact will always be possible it also becomes more and more difficult to achieve as a country becomes more capitalist. You can't get a job without a good education. You can't get a good education without the ability to pay for one. A capitalist country has as much separation of class as a socialist one.

Too much capitalism is a bad thing. Just like to much socialism is a bad thing. That is why Democracy has so much appeal. Because it is the happy middle ground of all ideas and beliefs. The problem is, democracy becomes capitalism because of greed. The dream to be rich influences voters into voting in favour of benefits for the rich. Not because they are rich, but because they want to be.

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LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Hidden (Show Comment) 0 votes

1395 days 8 hours ago...

Capitalism is here and is gonna be here for long , that's for sure . Individual rights and property should be respected , it's fundamental . But democracy is democracy , when each , even dumbest voice is being counted .

So far it's representative democracies in every democratic country . But when those representatives are being lobbyed , then in my opinion it does not have much in common with democracy , this shit truly leads to oligarchy .

In my opinion ammount of property cannot change the way a person affect the government . Democracy is a rule of people , it does not matter , how much money a person or a group of people have , so if you are saying that representative democracy is a democracy , then at least have decency to keep it out of outside influence . The only thing , that can be allowed is minority talking majority into electing representatives , that benefit the minority .

This is hard to archieve in representative government . So , i guess ideas of direct democracy are still my favorite .

Oh ! Free market policy sucks donkey balls . If strong government institution does not control it and labour unions are considered something bad from socialist past , the gap between rich and poor stretches really fast and employers reduce wages and rights up to the point , where people quit . I had a 'pleasure' working in such company for 4 years , company was succesful , made a good profit , but every idiot with economics diploma was trying to maximize profit , reducing 'unnecessary' personnel . Safety and health went down the drain , normatives were growing each month . It got really fun , when at one stage i had to work 9 hours a day and then every second night i had to be at home and sober in case they gonna call me in the middle of the night , if I'm gonna be needed .

"Make money. Make more money. Make others produce so as to make money.... However you get them in or why, just do it." Ron Hubbard

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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Bobmer : LVL 1: VP 1: said:

AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

maida : LVL 20: VP 2.9: said:

LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

klyfer : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

eveningstar : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

hahajohnnyb : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

eveningstar : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

AhumbleKnight : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

LithuanianLabourer : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

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