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BBC Horizon: The Lost Pyramids Of Caral

"The magnificent ancient city of pyramids at Caral in Peru is a thousand years older than the earliest known civilisation in the Americas and, at 2,627 BC, is as old as the pyramids of Egypt."

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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Uzo : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

Uzo

4 votes NegativePositive

26 days 22 hours ago...

Sweet Jesus that was long. And interesting. Yet pointless. I still give it 5/5 because it`s thought provoking and I encourage ShapeSphere to upload more.

Look, I`m no archaeologist, but I`ve always been interested in any discussion as to why we formed complex societies and so on. Coupled with my sheer genius *not joking - I am THAT incredible, please by all means comment against me - it just adds to the discussion*, this makes me more than qualified to comment on this.

Ok ... first of all, interesting doco. But if you know the first thing about stone age societies you could explain damned near everything they found - or even more telling, didn`t find - in the first 10 minutes.

That fool, running about declaring wildly that war is the foundation of civilization?! What nonsense. The tool (an ironic term I know, please refer to the nearest dictionary if you don`t understand) can`t even choose an appropriate hat for the environment (note very clearly how the bastard has to hold onto his hat all the frickin time). How could this moron declare that "there`s no fortifications!"? Howsabout wearing a decent hat next time mate, and then I`ll listen to your advice to a stone age culture.

These vast pyramidal structures are more than likely religious or social in meaning. They`re not forts. You don`t see battlements or fortifications around the pyramids, do you? Nor Notre Dame? Holy (again, irony) shit!

Must`ve been an army .. yeah. `Cause savage barbarians clean up after themselves. If either of these places fell to attack there would surely be arrow/spear heads etc littering the damned place.

These guys need to sit down with one of Jared Diamond`s books and re-examine their convictions. The land dried out, the waters stopped flowing. Hell, I`m typing to you from downtown Osaka. Not 1,500 years ago this place was in the ocean - the idea that these barren lands were once green and fertile yet now dry and barren is hardly requiring of a suspension of disbelief.

And a few of the other points about civilization - metallurgy? Have any of you tried to extract iron ore? The specialists and technology required to develop that would be the result of possibly hundreds of years of trial and error - implying ongoing societies which could invest in such (apparently - generationally speaking) fruitless tasks. If I gave a thousand monkeys a thousand typewriters I might, in a thousand years, end up with the "baa baa black sheep" nursery rhyme, but I sure as hell am not going to end up with American Psycho.

I think by the development of metallurgy we are well and truly *CIVILIZED*. As much as any of us can be.

Just check Jared Diamond .. he can explain all of this, not directly, but by similar cases.

Look, I don`t know where the mythological `Mother City` is. These bastards are searching for the Garden of Eden ... and they will never find it. Ever.

Uzo : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

Uzo

0 votes NegativePositive

26 days 21 hours ago...

^ Apparently there`s a 3000 character limit. All I really had to add was this:

Sorry about the long post. But a long video requires a long reply. Please, discuss! This is too interesting to not be on the front page.


v Good point. The phrase `critical mass` kept bouncing around in my head. Many of these ages of development would require a certain degree of population to move onto the next phase - yet then progress rapidly within that age. Our current digital age, for example.

I fear we as a species shall not progress past the point we are at now, however, due to (as Palpatine would put it) a lack of vision. Hell, we visited other worlds around 40 years ago and can`t do the same shit now?

Venomousvole : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

Venomousvole

2 votes NegativePositive

26 days 20 hours ago...

The notion that confict, great need or suffering is needed for creativity is offered alot. Often by people who have a brown-tinted view of the world while living far away from such pressures, or those who make a good living from creating such pressures.

Is it possible that the need for trade (which prompted the dawn of civilisation here) was born in the other places at roughly the same time, simply because the population reached a level that made a trade centre essential or sufficiently desired? Or was the idea taken around the world by explorers, or even some kind of Gaia priciple?

x60sec-Assassinx : LVL 25: VP 3.4: said:

x60sec-Assassinx

16 votes NegativePositive

26 days 17 hours ago...

Interesting doco, but wtf is up with the overly exaggerated drama music throughout the whole thing...

selfworm : LVL 44: VP 5: said:

selfworm

4 votes NegativePositive

26 days 12 hours ago...

Their argument that trade caused civilization to spring up doesn`t make any sense. They found evidence of trade during the time that the civilization existed (which is to be expected) and then jumped to the conclusion that trade must have created civilization (somehow, they don`t tell us). They don`t even explain how and why these people chose to give up their previous hunter-gatherer lifestyle for horticulture/agriculture or how they developed farming.

This is one of the worse documentaries that I`ve seen come out of the BBC.

VanHalen : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

VanHalen

2 votes NegativePositive

26 days 11 hours ago...

Uzo:

"Coupled with my sheer genius *not joking - I am THAT incredible, please by all means comment against me - it just adds to the discussion*, this makes me more than qualified to comment on this." This makes you sound like a fucking jackass, don`t ever say this going into a discussion, just because you think you`re a genius doesn`t mean shit. I think I`m the president of the world, wait but im not.

The guy no matter how silly his hat, and how maniacal he may be, had spent most of his life studying the subject and was looking for it because 1 no one had found any and 2 he was looking for evidence to support his theory, and all the evidence he had from previous sites showed that his theory was right. Why do you disregard his experience simply because he doesn`t wear the right hat in your opinion. When you said "I`m no archaeologist" and then try to just slash a REAL scientist because of his hat, makes you look like a damn fool.

They could be anything you can`t just call them something without evidence and religious beliefs have been at the center of conflict since it`s beginning. In the past large structures generally were for fortifications, so its good to use that in a hypothesis. "You don`t see battlements or fortifications around the pyramids, do you? Nor Notre Dame? Holy (again, irony) shit!" There was the Bastille right near there and Paris has had many many armories right within minutes of Notre Dame.

"Must`ve been an army .. yeah. `Cause savage barbarians clean up after themselves. If either of these places fell to attack there would surely be arrow/spear heads etc littering the damned place." That`s why the guy was pissed they didn`t find anything, because that was evidence that there was no battles.

"The land dried out, the waters stopped flowing."
Maybe so but different areas, different things happen. There are many factors for everything, and it was obvious they didn`t find any evidence for that.

"I think by the development of metallurgy we are well and truly *CIVILIZED*. As much as any of us can be." That`s right, but it helps in the dating of the site.

"Look, I don`t know where the mythological `Mother City` is. These bastards are searching for the Garden of Eden ... and they will never find it. Ever." They are looking for the beginnings of civilization, you didn`t totally pay attention did you.

Uzo : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

Uzo

0 votes NegativePositive

26 days 10 hours ago...

*trolls because this video was more interesting than most*

^ lol! I`m flattered!

I just love how you give me points on discussion technique- especially that "don`t ever say this going into a discussion" bit, which was preceded by "this makes you sound like a fucking jackass". The only difference is it`s clear I`m making a tongue-in-cheek comment - you`re just calling me a fucking jackass. Perhaps both of us need a review in debate/discussion etiquette, no?

I also like your reference to the Bastille. In a post-Rennaisance, dawn-of-Industrialization society not 250 years ago. These guys are talking about Stone Age. Y`know, with rocks n stuff. Paris was the largest and quite possibly most developed city in the world circa 1760. It wasn`t a handful of structures built by stacking one rock on another by people who had hand-fashioned tools picked up from the forest floor. Notre Dame was an analogous reference - you might have been happier had I referred to Stonehenge instead, which WAS Stone Age, not pre-Industrial, and was not slap bang in the largest city in Europe, but rather an undulating plain in southern England surrounded - NOT by fortifications - but by other religious structures.

Ahhhh ... *stretch* ... wonderful. Another guy who`ll downvote me everytime he sees my avatar. My work here is done! *disappears to troll somewhere else*

SnakeIRye : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

SnakeIRye

-1 votes NegativePositive

26 days 8 hours ago...

There is much proof that our hunter gatherer ancestors and tribal ancestors were mostly peaceful. There`s always been war, but there is a giant misconception that we were blood thirsty savages with no rest, no peace and constant warfare. This non stop fighting most likely arose when myth and legends turned into tradition and then religion. When you need leaders to continue your civilization, it`s only a matter of time before your leader decides power and war are on the agenda.

Sir spanks-a-lot : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

Sir spanks-a-lot

-1 votes NegativePositive

26 days 6 hours ago...

you guys are weird. just like you wre taught american history (or european history), I was taught american history when I was a child. All of this has been common knowledge for americans (and I don`t mean white people in the US) for centuries. it baffles me that the rest of the world is amazed at this, I`ve known about this sort of thing since 2nd or 3rd grade.

I`d like to know what had been hidden from me about the rest of the world.

blue_devil : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

blue_devil

0 votes NegativePositive

26 days 4 hours ago...

^we are not really amazed by all this. follow the rivers and you will find human settlements and cities because crops grow better with irrigation.after a while comes organized religion, kings and warfare.you can`t have warfare without organization and structure and that comes from large cities.
this documentary is kinda fluffy, the whole thing could have been said in 10 minutes but they just like to dance around witch i dislike.by the time they get to the actual point you get bored and lose interest.

DireMinion : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:2007 Winner

DireMinion

1 votes NegativePositive

26 days 2 hours ago...

i wanna know more about the aliens

Sir spanks-a-lot : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

Sir spanks-a-lot

-1 votes NegativePositive

26 days ago...

I see your point, I guess that might have been what I was trying to say.

pbtthegreat : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

pbtthegreat

-3 votes NegativePositive

25 days 20 hours ago...

Boring this documentary is not. I am assuming that people who do not like this type of work would rather watch repetitive (reality) TV with giggle girls dancing around. These are all hypothesis and trying to prove what happened 5,000 years ago without writing is difficult. Just think how hard it is to prove how Micheal Jackson and Elvis Presley died with 100 times the people theorizing what happened recently, instead of 5 Millennium ago.

samsonl310 : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

samsonl310

-2 votes NegativePositive

25 days 18 hours ago...

The idea that this civilization started out of peace and trade is idiotic.

Just as someone else said. They didn`t just wake up one day from their hut in the rain forest, looking down at their goods saying, "Hey, I can sale this shit in a bigger market".....

That city could have been governed by some evil dictator from another land, or even a ritualistic nut bag who claimed they would all be possessed by evil spirits if they didn`t abide by their ruler etc. etc. etc. you get the picture.

Since recorded history has been pictured on walls around the world there has been war, blood shed etc. from an even older society than the one in this doc.
I think the idiots who made this documentary needs to lay off the blow for a second and use a little common sense and see the evidence in which has already been shown from different powers around the world that we do know how were started.

Man has always been for a type of ownership and power. There is no where near enough evidence to show they were some kumbaya, make love, not war group out in the middle of the desert in which farmers and herders decided to build such elaborate structures, along with, the sale and trade of goods etc. but never had strife with any other group for a millennium.

That my friends is what we call a fairy tale utopia...

VanHalen : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

VanHalen

0 votes NegativePositive

25 days 14 hours ago...

Uzo: I guess you are right on that...another thing is that you shouldn`t be so sarcastic if you`re trying to have an intellectual conversation, especially over type. It gets lost in translation, sometimes your tone does make you sound like a snob brat. In your original post you were making just stupid comments about the guy`s hat not what the arguments were. I do agree with your later point on that entirely. Also though, we have to consider that the fortification could have been dismantled and or destroyed but we will never have a 100% fact on that.

When giving evidence for a point don`t be sarcastic, give the evidence.

I do find it funny that they think that humans just randomly had massive cities though, like anything it would have started really small and just evolved from there. It`s also funny they dated it on one basket apperently?

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