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15 Comments

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exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 21 hours ago...

1/5 for anything with a tone of voice that says "your an idiot".

"I`m John Stossel. Now children, it`s a wonderful day in the neighborhood, so let`s talk about doctors."

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 20 hours ago...

That cosmetic surgeon is hot.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

Nose Nuggets

3 votes NegativePositive

101 days 16 hours ago...

I don`t care about his tone, Stossel is the man. Delivers the facts.

Anyone still confused why Health Care is expensive?

truth-is-the-nemesis : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

truth-is-the-nemesis

2 votes NegativePositive

101 days 15 hours ago...

cosmetic surgery shouldn`t be covered by any healthcare plan (except if its needed after a horrific injury).

i used to be a big stossel fan but now find him alittle biased to ignoring the suffering of others.

in regards to the laser eye surgery, most healthcare plans fund optical, although not laser surgery probably cause the long term effects are still unknown, as its a relatively new procedure & if all you want to do is not wear glasses contacts are probably a reasonable alternative for most people rather than a surgery which is much more expensive & takes up valuable hospital beds.

"thats when the doctor`s respond to YOU, NOT THE INSURANCE COMPANY" - stossel quote.

come off whatever your smoking stossel, thats the whole problem, doctor`s ARE responding to the healthcare insurance companies... and they are saying NO!!! were not paying for that!.

the `Minute Clinic` shown on this doesn`t answer the question of serious urgent medical conditions - & the customer even said i am not insured & have no medical doctor, WHY? (they didn`t bother to answer that, & thats the critical question).

`Remote Area Medical` visits areas of America that is in need of doctors and available free medical care for vast members of people who otherwise couldn`t afford it, why was that not highlighted?.

why did even a doctor say ENOUGH! to the for profit healthcare insurance companies? - sure he has a capitalist price list for his treatments, but what if you CAN`T AFFORD IT? are you just out of luck because your sick?.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-2 votes NegativePositive

101 days 14 hours ago...

^
Question: Who has the best interest in keeping your body healthy?
Answer: You.

Question: Who should be responsible to decide how much you should spend on health care and which doctor is best for you?
Answer: You.

Why is that when you give up all the choices and outsource the decision to the government, other people have to do the same thing too?

Red Heaven : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

Red Heaven

1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 11 hours ago...

Have a cute little wound that needs stitched? Got an ear infection? Hell, use our drive through with menus at the front desk.

However, if you need major surgery it seems you`re still boned. That`s the shit I`m worried about. It sounds great and good, would have saved me a bundle on my 1300 ear infection.

But what about back when I had a hernia that required me to go under the knife? Or when they needed to remove ovarian tumors from my mother few years back? What if you have gangrene?

Hell, what about major shit in general? Do they have a fuckin` drive through CAT scan?

There`s no simple solution to this because human health -isn`t simple-.

^And Flynn

The only person that`s going to determine how much anything is worth isn`t the customer... it`s the provider of the service. That`s why we have commercials and advertisements. We have to be talked into shelling out cash and convinced we are going to make/making a good purchase.

Venomousvole : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

Venomousvole

0 votes NegativePositive

101 days 8 hours ago...

So they used a laser eye clinic, as an example of how competition helps patients. This is diversion, slight of hand. or BULLSHIT.

The idea that doctors will become slack without competition reminds me of another argument, the idea that without christianity people become EVIL.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

Nose Nuggets

1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 2 hours ago...

truth-is-the-nemesis: I dont think you get the point of the piece entierly. Stossel is not sugesting this is an alternative to the current insurance/healthcare issue. He is explaining that the REASON healthcare and insurance is so expensive is DIRECTLY RELATED to CURRENT givernment envolvement. Insurance is not in the cosmetic surgery market and thats a GOOD thing.


Flynn_2006: SPOT ON! I am responsible for my health and well being. I do not want government or insurance companies making descisions for me.


Red Heaven: Again, like truth-is-the-nemesis; i don`t think your understanding the point of the piece. its not to say, these free clinics are here and available, bring all your health care needs to us. he is explaining why true free markets drive down prices and bring up service quality. hes not suggesting its an alternative to serious health care needs. He is showing two health care industries (cosmetic and private clinics) that have no government involvement and how the competition therein provide better and cheaper services.


Venomousvole: that`s a pretty absurd comparison. First off, he is using the laser eye clinic as an example because its not bullied by insurance companies, and prices have come down in the laser eye surgery market and service level increased. You cant say this about any health care market that insurance and government have a hand in.
secondly, the argument is NOT that DOCTORS will become slack without competition, its that competition provides market driven prices. its the doctor patient relationship that creates good service. as it stands now, the doctor gets payed by the Insurance company, so thats who he has to please.

for the price aspect you just have to look at some existing free markets. Cell phones and computers are a great example. over the years the quality has risen dramatically, while prices fall.

In markets where there is government intervention (like health care, via subsidies, tax cuts, and favors to big insurance companies) we see large rises in prices.

truth-is-the-nemesis : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

truth-is-the-nemesis

0 votes NegativePositive

101 days 2 hours ago...

^flynn is soo far off the point its scary.

sure you are ultimately responsible for your own health but how many of us take our health for granted until its too late?.

what if your genetical pre-disposed to certain types of disease`s should we punish these people for purely have poor luck?, of course not! & that`s the point, the whole `you take care of yourself & i`ll do the same` argument is the reason that this present healthcare system is failing so many people in America & no rationalization will help with their suffering only a change of the system itself to care for those whom it leaves behind.

if competition is so good for the success of a capitalist system, then whats soo wrong about competition from the public option of this plan?. (if this video is to be believed then thats the answer `competition` no matter where it comes from).

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 1 hour ago...

^ "what if your genetical pre-disposed to certain types of disease`s should we punish these people for purely have poor luck?"

So you could just punish the rest of us with no inheritance health problem by taking the money we earn and give it to the ones with bad luck disease. Looks like you want to level the playing field and slightly tilted to other side. And if someone is not taking care of himself, everyone should bail him out too? Where is the line drawn here to allocate responsibility for everyone? How comes it is okay to make the productive people to take care of the sick but it is not okay when we want to take care of ourselves. If someone wants to consume vast amount of fast food and has heart disease in return, you want the rest of us to pay for his surgery? If you are so unselfish, maybe it should directly come out of your pocket. You want to carry my bags for me too. It is sometimes pretty heavy.

@red heaven
"The only person that`s going to determine how much anything is worth isn`t the customer... it`s the provider of the service. That`s why we have commercials and advertisements. We have to be talked into shelling out cash and convinced we are going to make/making a good purchase."

So you mean like when the provider of the goods and services will sometimes gradually lower the price and increase services because they want to? Does every ebay item get purchased? So customers don`t look at the price when they buy things. when we come to cashier, we pick a number out of the hat and hopefully, we could pay for it. I so get that. So the law of supply and demand just got kicked out the windows for your logic.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

Nose Nuggets

1 votes NegativePositive

101 days ago...

i think truth-is-the-nemesis is under the impression that health care is a right that should be provided to everyone at the expense of those who can afford it, without their willingness to do so. well that`s socialism. its also counter to what America used to stand for.

now, if YOU want to donate your resources (time, money, etc) to helping people that`s awesome. that`s your prerogative. and there are plenty of people out there who do. back in the 60`s and 70`s there where plenty of free clinics run by churches. but uh, taking my money because someone else cant have health care is a violation of my property rights, and so are pretty much all of the taxes we pay. but that`s an argument for a different thread.

health care is a service. its is NOT a right. just because you live here does not mean you are entitled to free provided services. that`s not the way it works. now that sounds harsh, but just because health care is not a right, and it shouldn`t be provided to everyone does not mean that everyone can not get health care. people have this misunderstanding that if the government does not provide it at the expense of the taxpayer it wont exist. that`s false.

This is also a function of our current economic catastrophe. If we weren`t the largest debtor nation in the world, and we had huge surpluses and we didn`t have homeless people and general economic strife, i would probably support gvt funded projects to get care to people in rural areas and the like. but that`s not the case. There are so many things we need to fix before even THINKING about providing free services.

truth-is-the-nemesis : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

truth-is-the-nemesis

1 votes NegativePositive

100 days 13 hours ago...

here are all the socialist countries - you described.

Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.

you can`t just tar & feather everyone with the same broad brush.

some of these countries even helps you on matters such as the war on terror, yet you cant see their point of view on matter`s such as healthcare?.

the sky hasn`t fallin` in these places & it is not all socialist rule & the russian red if thats what you think.

glad to say i live in one of these countries and maybe you should visit one to get a clearer understanding of the system itself, we have private healthcare & medicare for everyone and we are not in hock like America & it has not taken anything away profit wise from the private sector (it can survive). AND I WOULD NOT GIVE IT ALL UP TO LIVE ELSEWHERE.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

1 votes NegativePositive

100 days 12 hours ago...

^ "The greatest advances of civilization, whether in architecture or painting, in science and literature, in industry or agriculture, have never come from centralized government." - Milton Friedman.


We seem to have confused about sympathy for others and personal responsibility. Not saying whether universal health care is either good or bad. Look, most of us want to help others if given the chance. But there is major difference between being unconditionally altruistic and taking other people`s property so the system favours one group of people and not another. Right now someone somewhere is working hard to produce things you need. These someones need to make a profit to stay in the business. They compete to produce the better and cheaper things so that it attracts more consumers. Overtime it gives more reasons to innovate and these competitors gave us all the high standard of living because one`s desirable to make things better. If these people succeeded in making profit, who do you think it benefits most? In the end, the physics is still the same, choices give all us the power to decide what is the best and who should succeed. Outsourcing choices to an monopolistic power will put an end to most of those innovators. There is no history like the history of putting absolute trust in absolute power of government which proven to destroy civilization faster.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

Nose Nuggets

0 votes NegativePositive

99 days 20 hours ago...

truth-is-the-nemesis: Canada has a population smaller then California and their waiting list to be admitted to a hospital for a duration has crested 830,000. England`s list is over 1.8 Million. You cant use other countries to make these arguments.

truth-is-the-nemesis : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

truth-is-the-nemesis

1 votes NegativePositive

92 days 23 hours ago...

@ Nose Nuggets ^

& whats America`s big system advantage? 48 million uninsuranced, higher costs, higher mortality rates -

that`s why there`s no waiting lines, no-one`s got any money to pay the bill.

is medicare & government run military healthcare evil to?.

would you rather spend tax dollars on wars or healthcare?. (if your gonna pay taxes atleast get something in return).

you only mentioned Canada & the UK out of a total of 36 different countries that offer a style of healthcare unlike your own - why are all 36 wrong?. (my argument is very valid).

America`s system costs the most and delivers the least while not significantly decreasing mortality rates overall, so explain to me again why it`s soo good?.

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