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Ron Paul on Healthcare

During his run for presidency

  • sh0wtym3
  • posted by sh0wtym3
  • Date 8/15/2009 8:24:44 PM
  • Views: 3719
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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Venomousvole : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

Venomousvole

Hidden (Show Comment) -13 votes

107 days 5 hours ago...

and the voice of reason comes along to piss on EVeryone`s campfires. If it get`s the consumerism out of drugs, your on Ron. After that you can audit the fed, re-introduce democracy, and turn water into budweiser for an encore.

Lord-69 : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

Lord-69

12 votes NegativePositive

107 days 4 hours ago...

Here is Canada you can get FREE or you can get PRIVATE whats the fucking problem people?

chrisszbond : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

chrisszbond

Hidden (Show Comment) -8 votes

107 days 3 hours ago...

i really like ron paul, but totally disagree on healthcare.
there should be a gouvernment option, with all the basic care, for everyone. So that everyone can have basic care and not die on the street. Any additional healtcare like spa`s and unnescessary treatments can be provided by the private sector.

who ever then wants still to be insure privately can do so, at his own rist of bein rejected once he becomes too costly..

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-5 votes NegativePositive

107 days 1 hour ago...

You could have charity to help people who couldn`t get health care if you really care about poor people who couldn`t afford to see the doctors. Where I live, I used to volunteer on a health bus going to less privilege neighbourhoods giving out medicines and check up to kids. It was one of the best thing anyone had done in a long time for those people and it was all done without the help of government. Forcing everyone to pay their share would result in long wait time and wasteful spending by bureaucratic government who loved to see people giving up their choices. Government service hasn`t had a slight incentive to be better. Look at the DMV, FEMA, Veteran`s hospitals, and airport security.

P.S I am Canadian.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

1 votes NegativePositive

107 days ago...

I`m a Canadian too, and I`m 100% in favor of our public healthcare.

Ron Paul is awesome, but he fucked up when he said Canada`s system doesn`t work. Give us a 5 year break from decades of American corporate attack on our system, and then we might be able to get an honest answer to that question. Remember we are about 1/10th as many people, with MAJOR pressure and interference from Big American Med industries who look north and see potential paydirt.

Ron also has a blind spot because of his free market capitalist idealism. He fails to see that capitalism is the theory, but rule by mafia is the reality. We can`t trust greed to reliably provide for some critical services. It`s the same reason we don`t hire out all police and fire and court and spying and regulatory and and and... There are some things we just can`t trust to greed and profit. The American experiment of allowing private healthcare as the majority provider, has failed tens of millions of people, and cost untold trillions in extra profits above and beyond the real cost of the services. It puts a greed manager in charge of approving what care you may or may not get.

I`m glad Ron sees that it failed, but the problem is corporate corruption, and going more private won`t solve that. How did the private banking system do? It tanked the fucking world economy by corruption. How`s your government doing? It`s been mostly taken over by corporations to serve their greed.

America needs to go 100% public healthcare, and take back her government so it does a good job, like it does with so many other critical public services.

The only way you`re gonna win a fight against a trillion dollar (profit) industry is if you REJECT their rights to any profits at all, shut them down, take the whole notion off the table.

GameWarrior2216 : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

GameWarrior2216

-6 votes NegativePositive

106 days 11 hours ago...

Canada`s healthcare system fails in comparison to America due to the fact that there is more doctors in USA than Canada and not to mention we Americans have more available medicine and medical technology compared to our neighbors to the north. I`m not trying to imply that Canada is worst but let`s say we go back a few years and install a free national healthcare system, we would do it more efficiently. The problem is not the economy we`re in now but how corporations and the government profit from the sick rather than the healthy, which a lot of ignorant people don`t seem to recognize because they`re more worried about that annoying slut on a reality TV show rather the sharp pain in their side. It`s all about which way the gold flows regardless of how much blood is shed.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

1 votes NegativePositive

106 days 6 hours ago...

^ But can you really count 100% coverage, at way less cost per capita, a fail?

I know it`s not quite as good on the bleeding edge of advanced tech., but I also have to wonder this:

Where would Canada be if the US had put in 100% public health decades ago, and we had sensible COOPERATION between our systems, instead of a profit driven war. It could include crazy things like cross-border patient transfers, technology sharing and skilled labour pooling. Canada has lots to offer, even if we are only 1/10th of the US.

For a similar comparison by population, how well would Texas or California alone have done advancing medical tech, if it was isolated from the US, and treated as a systemic threat for decades? Canada has done pretty well considering. Mostly because the truth is that there is still room for industry and profit, just not to the digusting degree you have in the US. The insurance industry especially being the worst of them.

I know "cooperation" is nearly a dirty word to many, but it`s a worse error to insist that competition is always innately superior, just because you have some ideological zeal that you prefer over reality, which has many more sides to it than any set of mere ideas.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-5 votes NegativePositive

106 days 1 hour ago...

^ Show me one case where competition made things worse off for everybody?

irishkreme : LVL 20: VP 2.9: said:

irishkreme

-5 votes NegativePositive

105 days 21 hours ago...

^Dallas Cowboys Football :-(

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

-4 votes NegativePositive

105 days 6 hours ago...

^ The American health insurance industry. Because they made so much money, they compete with the public good now. Watch the recently posted Rachel Maddow clip about corrupt industry insiders promoting the whole "grass roots" anti healthcare movement.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-5 votes NegativePositive

105 days 2 hours ago...

^ you do know insurance companies are corrupt because the government allow them to. There`s more reason not to have government run anything except the military.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

-3 votes NegativePositive

104 days 23 hours ago...

^ you do know the government is corrupt becase the insurance companies pay them to? There is no effective governance of corporate activity, because the governments and corporations are indivisible now. It got that way because the same crooks are running both shows. Fatal flaw.

It`s rule by mafia now. At least with public healthcare there is a notion of public good, a general concept that that`s the point. If the betrayal of that is enough to get the people to fix the government, then it that would seem the only hope.

Otherwise you`re all just fodder for the mega corps.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-6 votes NegativePositive

104 days 22 hours ago...

^ yes you are right, there`s a very well intention thing to do to have public health care. But the irony is you are for the things you just said you are against. The profiteering entity of insurance companies become the way they are today is not because of capitalist free market, the insurance companies become the monster they are today is because the lack of free market system. Think what would happen if your local restaurant pay off the government to only grant license to open restaurant for that very only owner of that only restaurant in town. It becomes a monopoly. Government run entity is precisely what monopoly is. You are essentially left without a choice to choose what would be the best for yourself. If you think insurance companies are corrupt when they are recited within their local state, think what would happen if this monopoly become nation wide corporation hence the meaning "Universal health care" or public health care. Basically, in such system, doctors, nurses and patients no longer know what are the goods and services will cost. Why should anyone worry about that? Well if every time you go the grocery store and everything on the shelf is free think what would happen if you are not the first in line. I just want to point out that if you let something become so big without any limit for a suppose good intention, you would end up with neither a good intention nor beneficial consequence. because you have just given up the basic fundamental liberty to choose what is really fair.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

-2 votes NegativePositive

104 days 22 hours ago...

^ Unlike free food, most people don`t want to be in hospitals. I don`t see much of that abuse in reality here in Canada, and I suspect it gets highly over played along with every other little thing the American health industry can try to drag out against public healthcare.

In a capitalist free market system, the reality is that businesses operate mostly for the ever-maximized profits of a very few owners. While the competition does tend to push prices down, this comes with the REAL cost of concentrating so much wealth in the hands of so few, that they will have eventually bought out any & all public regulatory mechanisms, and get exactly where you see NOW in the US.

Do you think the government planned that all out and did it all on purpose, because they actually thought it was the best public policy?

Well, no, of course they didn`t. They just couldn`t stand true against the inevitable corrupting pressure of free market capitalism, which seems to devour everything in its path. The bigger the hurdles, the bigger grow its fangs and mouth and gut.

The problems are due to a feedback loop that seems to have no limits. Private interests corrupt governments, which then corrupt private interests, which then corrupt governments more, and so on.

If your holy founding father`s beautiful ideals were actually up to the true task of constraining a free market capitalist economy, corruption and all, then maybe the US wouldn`t be so screwed up these days. Financial meltdown, endemic corruption, and the brewings of very violent civil unrest / conflict.

Looks to me that when everything is always competition, the winners get way too big, and take all. Leaving 5% left over for 95% of everybody else. That`s too much competition in action. Crime and exploitation mostly add to the succsess, and thus beget more of the same.

Time for some real cooperation, if you ask me.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-5 votes NegativePositive

104 days 21 hours ago...

^ Your assumption is free market system always produce a money overlord to cease control the lives of everyone. That is simply not true. Do people spend their money to purchase goods and services because they think it might be good for them or is it because there`s someone holding their decision at gun point? Money are just vouchers that gave value to the means of your work. You would not spend money to buy that pair of shoes, if you didn`t think those shoes might benefit you somehow. Same goes a market system, a free market system allow people to pick and choose what consumers think would be the better goods and services. The less competitive entity simply go out of business despite of your choice. You are right though that no one wants to be in a hospital. But most of us will get old and sick eventually. None us wants to be hungry either. But we know if we don`t eat, we will eventually be hungry.

Furthermore even if somehow the market does produce a money overlord, you still have the choice not to spend money on that business. On the other hand, if you impose law to dictate and make a monopoly overlord, your only way to get rid of it will be gone. Because you have no choice to spend money to make other businesses that could topple its dictatorship.

Hey everyone has a shot to become that 5%. The pie does get bigger. In the last hundred years, businesses have come with innovative ways to produce things in a cheaper and faster rate. Ford invented assembly line to increase productivity of the car thus give people more free time because they spend less time traveling in the road. genetic food allow crops to grow healthier, faster and with more nutrients for our body thus giving everyone more food and cheaper grocery bill. All those innovation are driven by profit, the pie does get bigger and it`s at the benefits of everyone.

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