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Kucinich at Single-Payer Hearing

Congressman pwns Dr. Gratzer?

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13 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Nose Nuggets : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

Nose Nuggets

-6 votes NegativePositive

164 days 2 hours ago...

i like Kucinich`s zeal in most cases, but any kind of government run or assisted health care is a terrible idea. people think that health care is free in England and Canada; its not. and free health care would be the worst thing ever, as are things that are close too it. this is because it screws the doctors the most, all the good docs will go where they can get paid more for their better abilities and longer time spent in schools.

you think its by chance, or merely supernatural that Canadians and British come to America for surgery and diagnostics instead of wait in their home country?

now, i know that having uninsured people who cant get health care is a serious problem, and i agree; but having a socialized system that fucks the doctors and staff over for the illusion of a benefit to the people; is preposterous.

the BEST possible thing you could do is remove government ENTIRELY and FINALLY create a system where there is actual and direct competition between health care providers. get rid of the subsidies and tax cuts and deals that the government grants to the big corporations and remove their advantages over smaller companies and promote competition. right now insurance is a fucking racket that only exists because of the governments assistance. you need the the market and competition to exist to drive down prices. why is it that the medical industry is the ONLY industry where prices dont fall as technology increases; because all parties involved are in cahoots to gouge prices.

Ownerz : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Ownerz

0 votes NegativePositive

163 days 18 hours ago...

I can`t hear a thing. Anybody else having problems with the audio?

blade9z : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

blade9z

3 votes NegativePositive

163 days 18 hours ago...

Nose Nuggets, clearly the open competition to drive the price down isn`t working well isn`t it? Even those with health care, they are still being decided by the insurance company rather than bye their doctor. Universal health care is essential if the governement of that country understand what human rights is.

Ownerz : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Ownerz

1 votes NegativePositive

163 days 18 hours ago...

BTW - Nose Nuggets, I`ll try and keep this civil so as to focus on the issue. Where exactly are the doctors and healthcare professionals going to go "where they can get paid more for their better abilities"? The whole point is that we`re the only industrialized nation without socialized healthcare, so it`s not like they`re going to suddenly pull up stake and go overseas or something.

I agree that an all-out government takeover is probably not the answer either. For one thing, the healthcare industry is one of the few healthy (revenue-wise) sectors of our economy. At the same time, the amount of waste in healthcare, be it in pharma, insurance, hospitals, what have you, is absurd. Billions are spent on marketing, and R&D that doesn`t produce sh*t. I hate to quote Chris Rock, but when was the last time we cured anything? The free market is great when it comes to most things, but I fail to see how less regulation and oversight is going to fix anything, particularly the number/percentage of uninsured. I mean, there is a good portion of the American populace, which, even with the best free market competition possible, is going to be uninsurable. The two primary components of the industry are at odds, and we get caught in the middle. For pharma and the hospitals, they make the most money by keeping us just sick enough to be dependent but not terminal, while the insurance companies make money when people rarely or never go to the doctor. Once again, I`m not trying to be petty or snippy, I just don`t understand how decreasing government is going to solve anything. I`d appreciate a further expansion of your case, so please don`t just quote Adam Smith and tell me I`m a Socialist idiot like some do in this situation. Thank you in advance.

sato : LVL 29: VP 3.8: said:

sato

1 votes NegativePositive

163 days 12 hours ago...

nose people come to the us from canada and england for surgery because it`s more advanced, and those people pay big bucks for it, clearly those who can`t afford it don`t get the surgery. the difference is, in england and canada, those who can`t afford to pay get at least basic care free from their government, whereas in the states if u can`t pay u get nothing.
if that`s difficult to understand, try a car analogy, imagine england and canada are countries full of V6`s and public transport, while america has nothing but V8`s. in canada or england if u can`t afford ur v6 u can take a bus, it`s not great but u can still get around, and if u can afford a V8 u goto the states and buy one there, but american`s who can`t afford a V8 r screwed, they`re walking.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

Nose Nuggets

1 votes NegativePositive

163 days 5 hours ago...

blade9z:
We don`t have open competition here in the US as we don`t have capitalism (as much as some people might claim we do). Like i said in my OP, with the government providing tax cuts and subsadies to large corperations there is no room for small clinics and smaller health care start-ups to compete because they dont get the benefits of the big guys. now this will really skewer me but, im sad to say, health care is not a right. but there are lots of caring people in this country that provide health services for free such as clinics and the like. back in the 60`s and 70`s there where lots of free clinics run by churches as stuff, not so much any more.

Ownerz:
the docs will start their own practices and charge huge prices for the wealthy who dont need insurance to assist in paying their bills. Removing government entirely will reduce the waste as it wont be made up in tax cuts and subsidies. plus, the fact that more and more people would be going to smaller local competitors they will be forced to compete to maintain market share. the problems have nothing to do with a lack or abundance of regulation and oversight. its your government interventionist health care that we have now that has restricted the flow of cures to the market, not the other way around. if health care providers where truly competing then costs would drop, so insurance would drop, there would therefor be less risk in insurance less-healthy people and more people would get cheaper insurance. essentialy its the abundance of government intervention that has created all the things you hate. health care and pharma lobby dictate policy. but its like that in most large corporate industries now. you think its by chance that once prisons went privately owned that non-violent drug charges received mandatory minimum sentences? of course not. i am also not trying to be short or snippy or offensive, so i apologize if i came off like that in the OP.

Sato:
the technology is not really very different between here, canda, and the UK. i dont know where you get that from. if you go and read the horror stories about Brits and Canadians that have come here for CAT scan and surgery its because of the wait times, not because of anything else. yeah, those who cant afford any health care get basic care for free, with potentially deadly wait times but everyone is forced to suffer the same, even those who could afford better care are not allowed too in the UK.

i think the main hang up is you guys think health care is a right. its sadly not as horrific as that might sound.

Black0ut : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

Black0ut

2 votes NegativePositive

163 days 3 hours ago...

As a Canadian, the peace of mind of being able to go to a hospital and get health care NO MATTER WHAT, and not have to worry about not being able to pay rent this month because I broke a bone, or because I am sick, or a member of my family is sick.

I understand how everyone always claims how bad Canada`s health system is, and how we have to wait a long time to get a bed spot in hospitals and that non-sense.

But really, is it not a good thing that our hospitals are busy? That all of our citizens are getting the health care they need, on a prioritized level? Sure you might have to wait a bit longer to get some attention. At least in Canada the person with a little cold will get the same attention as the person with a serious medical problem, just in a appropriate time scale, where as in the states the person with the minor cold that has insurance will be taken care of before the person with a serious medical problem who does not have insurance.

Nose Nuggets : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

Nose Nuggets

-3 votes NegativePositive

163 days 2 hours ago...

BlackOut:
to be perfectly honest with you, i couldn`t give two shits about the speed in which you can get your cold or broken bone assessed. the success of `a health care system` is directly proportionate to the amount of people with life threatening illnesses can get assessed.

its NOT a good thing that your hospitals are busy. that means people with minor issues are wasting the hospitals time. and why not? its free, right. it WOULD be a good thing if your citizens where getting the health care they needed, but many Canadians say they don`t. just because your single experience is different does not make it an inaccurate argument.

your assertion regarding serious medical problems in the US is false, and no one, with or without insurance, will get turned away from an ER. there are in fact many pending law suits where illegal aliens are in ICU`s for an extended period of time not only without insurance, but entirely without funds to pay the bill in any capacity. so in essence, i get stuck with the bill because i am a law abiding tax paying citizen.

i understand your single personal experience and opinion, but its not really assessing the `big picture.`

Ownerz : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

Ownerz

1 votes NegativePositive

161 days 20 hours ago...

Nose Nuggets - Thank you for your response and elaboration. I doubt you and I will ever see eye to eye, but I don`t want to stretch this out in some demonstration of my own stupidity by trying to make a Comments section into an actual Internet Forum. Three quick things:

1) I would hope you would agree that even in the best of cases, there are still going to be some people who won`t be able to get coverage (i.e. the poor, those that it is unprofitable to insure like people with severe pre-existing ailments, the obese, etc) in a free-market system. Thus, a private system will never achieve 100% coverage. This is at least a small notch in the social-medicine belt. I concede that this assumes that people in good health who are productive members of society will have to pick up the slack for those that are not.

3) You talk about competition from small start-ups or clinics. Unfortunately, due to our legal system, this is kind of unrealistic. One minor mistake could result in a major malpractice lawsuit that would flatten a small healthcare startup, and the insurance fees are ridiculous. I`m sure you and I can agree that some reform in this area would be necessary as well, but that`s another slippery slope.

2) I still say the audio from this vid is F*-d. I could be wrong (frequently am), but a repost with good audio would probably get the video promoted a lot faster.

Tada : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

Tada

1 votes NegativePositive

161 days 2 hours ago...

Both systems do in practice make the patient wait longer for treatment but for totally different reasons.

Single payer: More people go do the doctor which results in longer waiting lines.

Private: A lot of people simply fear to go to the doctor because they don`t want to waste money going to doctor only to find out that they`ve got workout pains in an unusual place.

So comparing waiting lists isn`t really that meaningful since it doesn`t really account for the latter. And the "doctors will flee the country to work in place where they can make more money" myth is just fucking retarded. You rarely see Europeans doctors fleeing to the US to live the big life and you won`t see American doctors fleeing to where ever. Sure perhaps you see some rich ass patient go the US for specialized treatment, but never doctors.

sato : LVL 29: VP 3.8: said:

sato

0 votes NegativePositive

160 days 12 hours ago...

nose dude i got that from you...
"you think its by chance, or merely supernatural that Canadians and British come to America for surgery and diagnostics instead of wait in their home country?"

Jamie1987 : LVL 28: VP 3.7: said:

Jamie1987

0 votes NegativePositive

155 days 15 hours ago...

woooo go Canada

BrightRO : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

BrightRO

0 votes NegativePositive

152 days 10 hours ago...

http://www.watch-movies-links.net/movies/sicko/


Watch that nuff said

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