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Prayer Is Nothing But An Illusion

Prayer is nothing but an illusion, and so is god

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15 Comments

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saltesc : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

saltesc

-4 votes NegativePositive

180 days 23 hours ago...

As far as I can tell, prayer only has a response governed by everyday coincidence, which this video backs up in a really weird way... But once again this is purely just an anti-Christian video and hasn`t even begun to dip into other religions that gear completely differently. Therefore, "God is Imaginary" holds no ground. If I asked what makes you say there is no God, you would not be able to give me a proper answer because we simply do not know, we are just "human after all" (Daft Punk, great band).

Furthermore, saying no deity exists has no evidence at all. It is like saying there are no other life forms in the universe, there is simply no evidence to back that up. Saying a deity does exist at least has historical evidence, as coo-coo and iligitament as it may be, but it`s that illigitemacy that makes people think God is imaginary. Well no, it just means that this particular deity explained in this evidence is unlikely.

Whether there is a God or not, there is no knowledge to support both, especially from an atheist point of view who simply say "no there isn`t" with absolutely no grounds. So saying there isn`t a God is about as fatuous as saying there is one.

Naivety and nescience are common traits in the more simple minds though. Like this video. Though very correct in most parts, it is extremely biased and therefore doesn`t explain correctly nor broadly. It is like listening to a Christian preacher.

3.5/5 because at least it`s not blatantly bashing people`s beliefs, cultures, and religions for no particular reason.

MachineHead : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

MachineHead

1 votes NegativePositive

180 days 23 hours ago...

lol i just posted the video cuz i found it interesting is all

likeomg : LVL 4: VP 1.3: said:

likeomg

1 votes NegativePositive

180 days 23 hours ago...

I like your style, saltesc.

pdub : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

pdub

5 votes NegativePositive

180 days 23 hours ago...

God is a jug of milk? I must be eating holy cereal in the mornings.

Anyways, he`s basically saying that we make up reasons to support our beliefs.

somber : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

somber

-3 votes NegativePositive

180 days 22 hours ago...

^
Actually, the point is rather that people tend to have a tendency to look for and see patterns in chaos, while this has a distorting effect on our (lacking) ability to handle and imagine coincidence.

@ saltesc:
"Furthermore, saying no deity exists has no evidence at all."
Apart from this statement but concluding from your reasoning, I`d guess you`re agnostic?
But I scratched my head at that very argument - no evidence for no deity? I have to disagree with you, since the whole point of looking for evidence is the logical conclusion that
_existence leaves evidence behind._
So far, we`re lacking credible evidence which leaves us with the conclusion: we do not know. Since there is none for neither against the existance of a higher being, we just cannot tell.
However, we could try to calculate. The reason why atheists claim "there is no god" is because the existence of a god simply is highly improbable, concluded from the lack of evidence.

I think you missed an important point of this video:
It`s not necessarily bound to a certain, in this case Christian, deity. It`s about the idea of any deity that is _receptive to prayer_.
And while I should know better than to allege you of throwing in "naivety" and "simple minds" as a means to discredit the video and agreeing viewers, let me point out that the main means of this video`s author of getting his argument across was to simplify the concept.
Simplicity does not equal stupidity.

All this video mainly tries to prove is that the idea of a god we have is incorrect. Apart from the ending statement, it does not exclaim anything about the general (non-)existence of a metaphysical being but instead only one that we supposedly can pray to.

To say, "Therefore, "God is Imaginary" holds no ground" actually is the claim that holds no ground. I have the feeling you did not understand the author`s reasoning, since he points out how everyday coincidence combined with a statement of always being true AND human tendency to create patterns out of nothing are a perfectly rational explanation of why people believe prayer works.

I agree with you, though, that he did make an unnecessary leap by going from "prayer does not work" to "god is imaginary". However, I would say this being a leap only is one in this video. The author does not go into detail WHY the conclusion "prayer is inefficient" leads him to "god is imaginary".
To generalize, however, that the last statement is invalid, is a leap itself.

saltesc : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

saltesc

1 votes NegativePositive

180 days 21 hours ago...

^ I see, so you`re an atheist or agnostic atheist. That`s cool. I`ve heard the arguments that the lack of evidence is evidence, but that has only ever answered modern footing, but not even very well.

Here`s where we`re different on this one;
"the whole point of looking for evidence is the logical conclusion that existance leaves evidence behind."

I don`t believe that the same way I don`t believe earth is the universe and that what happens here is what happens with everything. It also reinforces deities with historical evidence, though this evidence is discarded by a grand fistful as obsurd. So essentially it`s an atheists ammo that is used against them. To think that a God exists that doesn`t care about the universe (or even this universe) goes completely against what you said and saying that this is impossible holds no proof.

Understand that our logic is ours only. It comes from what we have experienced on our tiny insignificant planet and is built with full traits of humanity only. As long as there are "What ifs?" there are endless holes in human logic and we understand just how undeveloped it may actually be.

I think you`re right in your explanation of the video. It`s more in depth than mine, so immediately your opinion is mine now too. But I still see that this stinks of atheism versus Christianity and that`s what sparks me up.

somber : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

somber

2 votes NegativePositive

180 days 21 hours ago...

^
I guess agnostic atheist fits - I don`t exactly know what I am, to be honest, since what I believe seems to rather match agnosticism, yet I more often than not take the atheist stance.

I have to admit, your argument of a non-caring god is quite convincing. He would not leave evidence behind. Still, my statement "existence leaves evidence behind" was no argument against any kind of metaphysical being. Regarding what you said, it would be rather an argument against a caring god.

The historical evidence of deities is seen as absurd, at least to my understanding, because all it proves is that former cultures believed in deities - nothing more, nothing less. Even though theistic views are spread all over the world throughout countless cultures, this does not necessarily mean that there has to be (a) god(s). Another possible explanation lies within the psychology of humans - which is what I meant with "searching and seeing patterns in chaos".

I agree, logic is ours only. We cannot assume from what we experience to other levels.
However, it is all we have. Although I also agree that we have to take into account that there is more, we can only work with what we have, and until more evidence, more hints, more phenomena show up, we`re stuck with it.
Picture this, a hollow pen and a cut with a bowie knife may not by far be as efficient as and a lot more dangerous than a breathing tube, but it suffices.

My point is, we have to consider the possibility that there is more. But as soon as this possibility takes us out of the existence we know and can handle, it belongs into the realm of fantasy. And I don`t mean this in a condescending way. Thus, of course, the argument that logic does not apply to fantasy is not only valid, but logical itself. But the inversion of that argument does not work, and that is what I tried to point out.

You`re right - this video IS an atheist jab at Christianity, there`s no doubt about it. I dislike these jabs just like I dislike preaching. Even though I believe that concerning human process and development, atheism would be the better choice, I don`t think preaching atheism is the way to get there.
Live and let live, I say. This goes both ways.

saltesc : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

saltesc

0 votes NegativePositive

180 days 20 hours ago...

^
Good analogy about human logic. I can see exactly where you`re coming from and I can completely understand why your philosophy is the way it is. I guess you could say that in watching human knowledge and logic grow, I know (at least hope) that these "fantasies" will fit into common logic as they do with the few they do at the moment. Imagine explaining quantum mechanics to Archimedes.

But the good thing about us is that our points of view are neither right or wrong, just very well thought out according to our own experiences, research, and understanding. As I see it, that`s the best anyone can do when it comes to these topics and that`s why I can`t be atheist or theist.

somber : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

somber

1 votes NegativePositive

180 days 16 hours ago...

^
Thanks. I love analogies.
It`s good to know that being gray instead of black or white isn`t always viewed as a bad thing. I sometimes get to hear that I can`t make up my mind about it, while all I do is consider the possibilities that I cannot rule out.
I`m a bit sceptical about your idea that at some point the "fantastic" might interweave with human logic. If we consider the probability of, for example, the Hologram Theory (I think there`s a few vids on SH about that), that might have a strong effect on our sense of reality.
But unless this sense isn`t shaken in any way (which a possible afterlife might), I don`t see any way this might happen.

Regarding the discussion that has been going on beneath your video about being agnostic, if we really differentiate between atheism and anti-theism (with which Leigh and Taj are actually right in my eyes), I rather lean towards atheism.
I don`t rule out a higher being, but I don`t consider it in philosophy.

But still, I guess you`re right, there is no right or wrong in the theological debate. However, there is a "sensible" and "not so sensible".

tokentiki : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

tokentiki

4 votes NegativePositive

180 days 12 hours ago...

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Roberts

Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

So "holocaust religion" tried it`s hand at genocide...yay for religion!!!!

Tajumera : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Tajumera

5 votes NegativePositive

180 days 10 hours ago...

Saltesc: Your position on deities only makes sense if you treat the other myths with the same openness. If you are to say that "we cannot disprove god, therefore there is a fair probability of existence" then you must make the same argument for Xenu, Thor, King Kong.... if you promote gods over pixies, then you are showing bias since there is the same level of evidence for either... absolutely none. That is why agnosticism bothers me, people are only agnostic in relation to monotheism. They exclude werewolves and vampires and magic rings that make you invisible, all of which are just as credible.

saltesc : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

saltesc

-5 votes NegativePositive

180 days 6 hours ago...

^ Well an agnostic doesn`t believe in worldly deities because they are stupid. But they don`t fully disregard the concept of one existing either. The idea of a deity being active elsewhere in the universe is just as likely as it is unlikely. Human history is riddled with concepts of deities as far back as humans have recorded and from all over the world, all coming down to the same core rules of loving yourself and loving each other. Combined with the unexplained core of existence, I can see that the concept of a deity/deites as feasible. But in the details of earths religions, I simply cannot believe in it.

playersholiday : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

playersholiday

0 votes NegativePositive

178 days 18 hours ago...

i love how all of the theology of this video comes from one random source with a .com at the end of it. Nice!

Red Heaven : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Red Heaven

5 votes NegativePositive

178 days 18 hours ago...

^^
God is a "worldly" deity too. Why do you not believe in Odin? What about Zeus? What makes them so unbelievable? What has your god managed that was so "realistic"?

You`re only barely aware of your own bias, and this latest comment of yours only proves your ignorance. Wake up.

Riotshoes : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

Riotshoes

-4 votes NegativePositive

178 days 18 hours ago...

I`m tired of seeing these fucking anti-religion videos smeared all over Spiked`s front page.

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