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Take My Freedom, Not My Gun

The recent spate of shootings in the United States inspired a discussion of gun control and gun rights on HBO`s "Real Time with Bill Maher" last week, with the most perceptive comment coming from the great stand up comedian and former writer for "The Simpson`s," Dana Gould, raising issues about the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the right to keep and bear arms that I address in this video.

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11 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

importrx7 : LVL 45: VP 5: said:

importrx7

0 votes NegativePositive

190 days 5 hours ago...

change the word "free" to "civil" and there is a completely different discussion

Sir spanks-a-lot : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

Sir spanks-a-lot

1 votes NegativePositive

190 days 1 hour ago...

on the question:

guns should be allowed because of the simple fact that the "lawyers" that would protect you work in a system designed by the government. if the government deems them useless or powerless, then they`re useless or powerless.

...
...

a gun will always retain it`s power, paper rights or not...

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

0 votes NegativePositive

190 days ago...

We must be free to bear arms.

Poverty causes gun crime, NOT guns. If you want to stop gun crime, then build a productive and equitable society. Unlike, for example, the USA.

Of course, money and lawyers are our only good hope for truly protecting our liberty and stopping widespread civil disaster. That is a no brainer. No lone person with his gun can do anything very usefull for the greater cause.

But We The People need to be able to hunt for food, protect ourselves from criminals, and Jesus Murphy forbid, protect ourselves during any wide spread social chaos, in case of a massive breakdown of civil society.

And lastly, one might hope that if a government knows we are well armed, it might help deter them from making any bold unilateral moves against the people. They will know that causing any very large scale social resistance will be dangerous, much more costly to police, and that the extreme level of policing required for success will make such a move much less acceptable to most people. It`s like tree spiking: it doesn`t phisically prevent logging, it just ups the cost beyond profitability. A pack of toothless hounds is less frightening to taunt than a pack of wolves with sharp fangs. And if those wolves are well fed, they won`t be trying to eat each other in honest desperation either.

xupz : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

xupz

5 votes NegativePositive

190 days ago...

A gun is an inanimate object. The problem has never been a gun.

The problem is people.

Talking about "gun control" is irrelevant, the truth is that it`s just another form of "people control".

truth-is-the-nemesis : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

truth-is-the-nemesis

1 votes NegativePositive

189 days 23 hours ago...

i don`t understand the strong American need for guns.

I am an Australian & here after the port arthur massarce in tasmania, it really pushed for stricter gun control - & rebates were handed out to owners for their firearms.

it`s never to get rid of all the guns everywhere, just to limit the access & use of assault weapons that the general public really has no real legitimate purpose of possesing in the first place.

you can still get guns if your have permits and are in a gun club but not anything other than what is seen as either sporting, working at a farming property etc.

what other than killing mass casualties is a M-16 good for? the governments not coming to get you, & the 2nd ammendment was written in revoltionary dates what is its meaning today.

if you want to play around with AK`s and claim its your right as an american then volunteer for military service.

and to bear `arms` could mean anything! should you be able to have nuclear weaponary?.

Venomousvole : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Venomousvole

1 votes NegativePositive

189 days 19 hours ago...

Here in the U.K a shotgun licence is not too hard to get if you have a secure gun cabinet. If you want a rifle licence you have to show what you want one for. No handguns, no automatics.
I think that`s a shame
I think a culture that revels in gun design, manufacture and the simple fun of shooting is wholey a good thing. Gun control laws should be able to protect people and allow them to satisfy their gun desires in a sane community environment.

ever seen "shoot out"? it has the line "guns don`t kill people, but they sure help" Individuals are always going to be wanting to kill for some reason, wether they choose a gun, a knife, a car or a bomb makes no real difference to the scale of their crime.

The only real danger from "Arms" is when large amounts are sold on an international black market. I sure hope nobodies economy relies on such trade, that would really suck monkey balls.

imBakedAsBro : LVL 4: VP 1.3: said:

imBakedAsBro

2 votes NegativePositive

188 days 14 hours ago...

*shrugs* A few things I guess.

xupz - yes the problem is people, but if you take away the guns at least its a bit HARDER for people to kill themselves.

Having guns is like countries having nuclear weapons in a way. Mutually assured destruction works with nuclear weapons, unfortunately guns are less powerful than nuclear weapons - meaning you have a good chance of blowing someone away and getting no response except (sometimes) being thrown in jail. Some people are willing to accept that - however countries aren`t willing to accept M.A.D. (yet).

Nemesis is right - here in Australia it`s quite easy to get a gun IF YOU REALLY REALLY want one (no crim record etcetc) but holy moly I am thankful that I don`t have to go on the streets where automatic weapons and assault rifles are like preschool toys.

Finally exploder - WTF man hahaa. Hate to tell you bro, but your government (if some reason they deemed you redundant) would crap on you and your vast array of small arms. Sorry to tell you they have air superiority, tanks and not to mention oh yeah AN ARMY OF HIGHLY TRAINED GROUND FORCES (or so I am told, haven`t been invaded here yet). Also when I want to deter crims I use a cricket bat (no joke) because a) they usually don`t have a firearm due to our strict gun laws and b) our laws are so punishing for violation and use of gun law/guns that robbing anyone with a firearm or shooting someone is pretty much like a "your life is over" sentence.

I dunno, say what you want about your rights and shit, I want the world to be gun and weapon free so we wouldn`t have to protect ourselves, we could just get the fuck along.

Accept with people like you saying that guns are necessary we will keep on killing each other until our weaponry has consumed all of us and the planet.

It will end with the last person probably blowing their OWN brains out.

So much more needed to be said but it`s wasted because you probably don`t even give a fuck.

Phanto : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

Phanto

0 votes NegativePositive

188 days 10 hours ago...

"what other than killing mass casualties is a M-16 good for?"

I am using your quote just for an example because it is the kind of argument I see very often.

People don`t understand how military and civilian weapons are closely linked and that you can`t really say "this weapon is of military origins so it is only good to kill people". Many civilian weapons are based off a military model and modified so they cannot fire in fully automatic mode.

I`ll take for example the AR15 rifle which is essentially a civilian adaptation of the M16 rifle (by disabling the burst/full auto firing capability). AR15`s are extremely popular rifles for varmint hunting and target shooting because of the ease they can be modified to be more accurate and the availability and vast choice of aftermarket parts for them. There is also the cheap and available ammunition factor.

When seeing an AR15, a uninformed observer would call it an "assault" rifle because it externally looks a lot like an M16 and he associates "black" rifles with massive firepower and fully automatic fire just like in the movies. But in reality, an AR-15 rifle is no different than any other semi-auto rifle of non-military origins on the market. They will both shoot the same way and have the same effect.

You can ban fully automatic fire, you can ban magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds, but that`s it. You can`t say that some weapon model or some calibre must be banned because of its military origins. People who say that don`t know crap about guns other than what they`ve seen in movies. And 99% of what you see in movies about guns is pure bullshit.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

0 votes NegativePositive

187 days 23 hours ago...

^^ @ imBakedAsBro : a few points...

1. I don`t have a vast array of guns, just a 22 for plinking, a very low power BB gun to scare away racoons, and a .223 hunting rifle for hunting deer in the dense bush of coastal BC.

2. I would be very tempted to give up my guns for a gun free world. Except there is no credible way to guarantee that some assholes wouldn`t just make a bunch more anyways. We have the technology, it`s VERY SADLY too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

3. I don`t believe that the small arms force of the people is enough to hold off the government. Not a fucking chance in fact. But I do hope that us having guns might help to up the ante. Basically if the government wants to round us all up like cattle, then they won`t get to do it by just asking nicely. They will have to be well armed, because we are somewhat dangerous, and it will be expensive, and it will look uglier to everyone. It won`t go over very nicely if we get taken over by what looks like military force in our own peaceful communities. People might protest, hopefully en masse. That is dissuation, nothing more.

4. Again, your dream of a gun free world. Sorry mate, I wish we had a car free world too. And a corruption free world. But none are possible. It`s too late, we cannot reverse time.

5. I will say again, that gun violence is only a symptom. The disease is poverty, and we must cure it. I see it as a matter of sitcks vs. carrots. In a garden full of carrots, people would rather eat than fight, there is plenty to go around. In a world of sticks, with only very few carrots around, people will fight, because many can not eat.

Americans (especially) seem to have a very hard time imagining a fair and equitable society. They seem to think that the answer to everything is more bigger sticks. MAKE MORE WEALTH, and see that it gets spread around more fairly, and problems like gun violence and drugs will mostly take care of themselves.

Guns are just tools. When desperate people are fighting over the scraps, and when that fight gets hard, they reach for killing tools. Guess what they find.

Feed the people, forget the guns.

imBakedAsBro : LVL 4: VP 1.3: said:

imBakedAsBro

2 votes NegativePositive

187 days 16 hours ago...

^at you

1. When I said `your array of small arms` I meant you the people, who are supposedly able to `up the ante` with relatively `small` arms compared to tanks/fighter jets etc.

2. Saying it`s too late is like saying it was too late to reverse slavery (or at least fight it), too late to give women the vote and too late to stop using swords and shields. Just because something is around for a long time doesn`t mean it can`t be extinguished. At least I would hope so.

3. I dunno, I don`t really think it would up the ante in a good way. Probably just beat down on you harder and faster in order to control that public outcry (at least thats what I would do if I wanted to suppress a secessionist state quickly *shrugs*)

4. Of course we can`t reverse time, very good point. But we can reverse our ways even if it TAKES a long time. Just like I`ve started flossing more, if we really wanted to we could DEMAND car`s that only ran on electricity and DEMAND our politicians stop being corrupt fuckers - but unfortunately too many people don`t give a fuck - which is fine I guess :/

5. Gun violence is a symptom of what? People use guns to massacre people en-mass a LOT in your country it seems, not because they were very poor or had a shitty life. They just happened to be a bit crazy and then obtained a firearm fairly easily. You would say poverty is a disease, I would say your tobacco and firearms companies are a disease, but whatever.

Yes, guns are tools. So why not try to at least remove these deadly tools as much as possible instead of trying to fix even harder problems (poverty etc).

Pretty sure if your constitution didn`t say you had the right to bear arms you would already have some form of improved gun control. Your forefather`s had muskets and cannons. Who you know with a cannon? Now who you know with a 9mm or semi-auto etc? . . .

Yes feed the people, DEFINITELY don`t forget the guns. Guns are bad, and sure we may never be rid of them but that don`t mean we have to keep endorsing a point-and-shoot lethal weapon for the sake of it. That`s like saying as long as everyone has a nuke we will get along because we will all have them to protect ourselves. I dunno, this debate could rage on forever, at the end of the day its your children and your children`s children that will continue to pay the price for your inaction on guns.

friedmeat : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

friedmeat

-1 votes NegativePositive

187 days 15 hours ago...

yes there sure are a lot of gun related killings in the U.S,the trouble is it seems too many nutjobs have access to them,dont get me wrong as i have a lot of experience with firearms here in Australia,but if you guys in the states want to keep your guns,you should try to accept some form of gun control and registration,otherwise the government will be forced to take on control that you wont like,the NRA should approach the government with some sensible laws,such as heavy sentences for firearm related crimes,and unregisted guns.

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