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The Hour: Christopher Hitchens Part 1

Part 2
The Hour`s George Stroumboulopoulos interviews Christopher Hitchens - author of "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything".

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15 Comments

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erico : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

erico

3 votes NegativePositive

242 days 23 hours ago...

exactly.

sn00ke : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

sn00ke

5 votes NegativePositive

240 days 4 hours ago...

Fuck, Hitchens is so smooth.

Csmack : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Csmack

Hidden (Show Comment) -11 votes

240 days 2 hours ago...

So annoying hearing from atheists like him about this supposed psychological trauma parents inflict on their children by stories of "hell fire" as he put it. I have never met any parents who do this. Mine certainly didn`t. None of my christian friends were ever scared into submission. I`ve never heard the "or else you`ll go to hell" card ever used in any of the homilies I`ve heard. It`s a stereotype that atheists fall back upon all too often. If this scare tactic is so prevalent, then why haven`t I seen it/experienced it?

Also, he says religious people have done things to children that no moral atheist person would ever think about. What he ignores is that no moral religious person would ever think to do those things either.

Wrykilx : LVL 5: VP 1.4: said:

Wrykilx

7 votes NegativePositive

239 days 23 hours ago...

Wow Csmack, are you going for some sort of dense and oblivious award or something? There was a documentary, posted on Spike no less than 2 days ago, about how children are indoctrinated under the American evangelical movement using such scare and shelter tactics. This is a very common and documented tactic of how dogmatic institutions indoctrinate children throughout the world, not just in the United States.

His argument for religious people doing things to children that no moral atheist would ever do is a valid one. He`s referring to such things as genital mutilation, telling them they`re inherently evil, teaching them creationist stupidity, etc. All of which have been done in the name of a god.

psychologyprofessor : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

psychologyprofessor

5 votes NegativePositive

239 days 22 hours ago...

^^Csmack I was a Catholic and when I was about 10 or 11 I had really thought that the devil was truly out to get me. I had this weird delusion for about a month and what made it worst was that this funny (really unfunny at the time) notion fell upon me around Halloween. Needless to say I was terrified for my immortal soul. I don`t remember how I got rid of this idea. I think I started wearing a crucifix for comfort.

I believe I`ve only shared this story with only one other person, and if this makes me seem stupid or gullible than so be it. The fear of Hell is a real phobia and there are real people who suffer because of it. Just look up Hadephobia, Stygiophobia or Stigiophobia.

Let me ask you something, have you ever lost a friend or loved one that committed suicide?? According to Catholic dogma whomever does commit suicide goes to Hell. I have had someone close to me hang himself. His name was Daniel. His mothers name is Linda. His brothers name is Gabriel. His sisters name is Christina. Now where do you think his family members thought he went to when he died?? Do you think they prayed for days for god to "save his soul"??

jnoyesqqq : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

jnoyesqqq

-1 votes NegativePositive

239 days 22 hours ago...

It seems to me that the main topic discussed here is one of morality. It also seems that Hitchens and the host do a pretty poor job of it at any rate. Hitchens says that we MUST separate religion and morality. What morality is he suggesting must be separated from religion? What religion? Who is saying that one can`t do the right thing with out a "celestial dictatorship" as Hitchens puts it? Any one can do good no matter their religious beliefs this is universally given in academic circles. The issue lays in where we are getting notion of what is GOOD. I ask, where do we get morality from? What is "good"? What is the "right thing" and why is it that? I`d like to ask who has said that they would be "raping, thieving and perjuring if it wasn`t for Jesus"? Is that what Hitchens believes is at the center of the Christian message? What do you think is the message Christ brought? This leads into the next comment. The comments that much of the discussion seems to be here. One in regards to Christianity poisoning our youth. Do you think that there is anything to the notion that children are born with the presupposition of a belief in a higher power? If that is true it could be an interesting thing to look into. But in the end this leads us back to the morality question. Where do these morals come from?

More to come on part two of this vid. Just some thoughts, maybe someone might be able to help me answer these questions.

jnoyesqqq : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

jnoyesqqq

0 votes NegativePositive

239 days 22 hours ago...

Psych, I actually enjoyed reading your post and would like to hear more. Firstly, I am sorry to know that you have been so close to someone who committed suicide. It is such a painful thing for anyone to go through. I`m truly sorry my brother.

Do you think his family praying for their loved one was wrong? How did you feel and how did you deal with it? Was that the first time you were close to someone who died? Suicide is so sad and I am honestly sorry.

jnoyesqqq : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

jnoyesqqq

-2 votes NegativePositive

239 days 22 hours ago...

Very simply, after watching this second part of this, Hitchens is spreading a very warped view of what religion is. It`s a little scary actually. I also would have thought Hitchens could have provided more evidence and reasoning for what it is he believes and why. I guess it wasn`t that type of interview though, so we can`t expect much more. Has Hitchens studied or even tried to understand world religions?

I also find it interesting that the host is able to draw a direct line of ideological relation from the civil rights movement of the 1960`s to the gay rights movement of today. Also what is the "toxic element" at the core of religion?

Glad I watched!

Wrykilx : LVL 5: VP 1.4: said:

Wrykilx

5 votes NegativePositive

239 days 21 hours ago...

@jnoyesqqq, innate morality is evident, well researched and understood among other primates. Its more than likely that innate morality took flight through close knit tribal bands of homosapiens and evolved, over a couple hundred of thousand years, into what it is today through multiple periods of acknowledgment to survival elements and philosophical enlightenment.

I`m not saying you`ve tried to make this argument but it is a common argument of the religious that if there is no god then everything is permissible. To even suggest a notion that homosapiens were killing, raping, thieving, and perjuring for hundreds of thousands of years without any consequence until Jesus came along to tell them it was immoral, is laughable at best. Consequences were already established under man made laws for these actions thoughout different cultural societies well before the existence of Jesus or even monotheism.

Secondly, the teachings of Jesus, as told in the New Testament, range from good to crazy. Granted, there are some very good pieces of advice. However, there are also some terribly bad pieces of advice as well as some just down right crazy suggestions. All in all, good and bad, Jesus never said anything revolutionary that wasn`t spoken by people that preceded him.

Nav : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Nav

1 votes NegativePositive

239 days 20 hours ago...

jesus, he owned that interview... that was like frost v nixon

DaVinci1 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

DaVinci1

-4 votes NegativePositive

239 days 15 hours ago...

@psychologyprofessor

When it comes to suicide, I do not believe that God simply abandons them. Suicide in the form of "Life sucks, I`m outta here." is one that is `frowned` upon. Those that suffer from severe depression lose the ability to hold on, like any other illness, and I`m sure God knows this and doesn`t cast that person aside. We all fall short.

Csmack : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Csmack

0 votes NegativePositive

239 days 10 hours ago...

Wrykilx: " There was a documentary, posted on Spike no less than 2 days ago, about how children are indoctrinated"
- You basically just did what I accused atheists of doing. Your reasoning of "if it`s in a documentary it has to be true" is really the root of your ignorance on this. And you view these incredibly dishonest, distorted, and biased documentaries as objective truth. You`re so blinded by your hatred that you won`t admit there`s an agenda to those documentaries.

" telling them they`re inherently evil"
- Can you show me where this is taught in the Bible or what doctrine teaches this? I couldn`t help but notice you like to avoid giving specifics.

@ psychologyprofessor
"According to Catholic dogma whomever does commit suicide goes to Hell."
- I`m very sorry for your loss but your statement is incorrect. This is NOT dogma. Dogmas include theological truths that a Catholic must believe (like the holy trinity). If you still think it`s a dogma then look it up, tell me the name of it and what council or pope pronounced it and on what date. I`ll save you the research; there`s no such dogma.

The Church has always taught that it is not our place to judge who is in hell. That`s for God to decide so anyone who tells you that your friend is in hell is going against Christian teaching because they don`t know the final thoughts of the individual.

Besides, if you`ve been taught that ALL those who commit suicide go to hell, then why are some still granted Catholic masses/funerals? Sorry to say but you have flawed understanding of Church teaching.

Csmack : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Csmack

0 votes NegativePositive

239 days 10 hours ago...

psychologyprofessor: "when I was about 10 or 11 I had really thought that the devil was truly out to get me. "
- So who do you blame for this? Do you blame Catholic teaching? As I`ve shown, even at your current age, you don`t correctly understand Catholic teaching. Do you think it`s possible that at 10 your understanding was flawed as well? Again, if it`s because of Catholic teaching, why haven`t I experienced it? Or anyone else I know for that matter? If it`s so prevalent, why is it so hard to find? Why do you only see this in agenda driven documentaries?

Questions to consider

Wrykilx : LVL 5: VP 1.4: said:

Wrykilx

5 votes NegativePositive

239 days 9 hours ago...

Csmack, I`ll answer both your questions with the same example. Inherently evil is a concept based upon original sin. We`ll use Christianity for this example. The concept of original sin is well spoken of in Mathew, Romans, Genesis and Corinthians, to name a few. If you`d like me to cite multiple passages, I have no problem breaking out my bible. The branches of Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity (just to keep it simple, we`ll pick two popular forms of Christianity in the U.S.) accept the concept of original sin in their teachings. For over 500 years the Roman Catholic Church taught that the souls of infants who were not baptized went into limbo. The Evangelical branch still teaches that we are born sinful and the only way to salvation is to be saved. Both of these are prime examples of mainstream religions teaching the concept of original sin, sadly its taught to children. We don`t need a documentary.

Csmack : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Csmack

0 votes NegativePositive

239 days 8 hours ago...

^ You`re confusing original sin with being inherently evil. Christianity does not teach that we are inherently evil but rather, that we are good but have a fallen tendency. After all, the Bible says that man was created in the image of God and it was good. If we are made in the image of God, how can we be inherently evil? Man can still have the grace restored in him that humanity was originally born with. If we were inherently evil, this would not be possible. So no, that is not what Christianity teaches.

I was told of original sin as a little kid and even then I knew that it did not mean i was inherently evil. So I don`t know where you`re getting this idea from. It never kept me up at night, asking myself why I`m so evil. It`s another groundless attack that stems from ignorance. So please do, open up your Bible.

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