Upgrade your browser!

Skip to Content

Videos / Random Videos /

Milton Friedman - Greed

I'm not this guy's biggest fan, but he does make a point. (Excerpt from Phil Donahue, 1979)

  • JamMcFar
  • posted by JamMcFar
  • Date 12/4/2008 5:41:41 AM
  • Views: 1700
  • All Ages
  • All Ages

Related Media

  • Video:Economics Professor
  • Economics Professor
  • An economics professor at school had a strict policy th. . .
  • Votes 4.04/5 - Views 30 - Comments 0
  • Video:US Mint Economics
  • US Mint Economics
  • It costs the US 134 million dollars to make..80 million. . .
  • Votes 4.68/5 - Views 4480 - Comments 34

View All


Trouble playing the media? Click here to manually download it.

Rate This Video:
Rate it 0.5 Rate it 1.0 Rate it 1.5 Rate it 2.0 Rate it 2.5 Rate it 3.0 Rate it 3.5 Rate it 4.0 Rate it 4.5 Rate it 5.0

4.42 out of 5 based on 319 votes

Rating Results:
Earn XP by sharing this video!
learn more

Video URL:

Embedded Link:

Send This Video To A Cell Phone! Digg

15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

ServusDei : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

ServusDei

7 votes NegativePositive

40 days 16 hours ago...

If you haven`t already read it, I recommend one of Friedman`s books, Capitalism and Freedom, in which he argues that capitalism is necessary for a democratically free society.

Max_Power : LVL 22: VP 3.1: said:

Max_Power

11 votes NegativePositive

40 days 15 hours ago...

I think history also shows pretty clearly that organizational principles are almost entirely dependent on how big the given society is. Robert Owens is one of the more successful economists to have shown the importance and relationship between the size of a society and the effectiveness to which it can be manipulated.

I think Friedman is right in that there is an unjustified stigma around the notion of greed, but I don`t think his depiction of self-interest is very robust. By greed, we do really mean protecting and advancing one`s own perceived interests, by there`s nothing inherent in the notion of perceived interest that means it`s actual interest. Such as the family unit, where parents will sacrifice quite a bit for their children.

It may be true that reliance on a market is going to be the most efficient, though it says little for our desires of equity. I would also suggest that it`s our desire for equity which undermines our ability to rely wholly on markets.

Tada : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

Tada

-1 votes NegativePositive

40 days 13 hours ago...

He is correct in a lot of things, other than what he says about Einstein, and perhaps about all scientists. Few do it to get rich and the kind of research we see in the state and private sector are almost always totally different kinds. The private sector loves improving efficiency and reducing cost of things, Ford didn`t invent the car or anything like that, only improved on the production of cars. The government love inventing things, like the Internet, nuclear power, lasers, jet planes, GPS, etc., you know, things that change the world. Profit and greed simply can`t explain everything and when you`re dealing with things like trading currency and stock it`s just insane to let everyone play like they want to, this make people take all kinds of risks and then come back it will more or less force the government to bail them out or crash the entire economy, thus ending the free market.

You can`t have a total free market nor can you have a totally controlled market.

Max_Power : LVL 22: VP 3.1: said:

Max_Power

5 votes NegativePositive

40 days 7 hours ago...

Tada, I think Friedman would say that these bailouts are not part of the free-market, also that the conditions which allowed the current problems to arise were not within a free-market. The recent problems come about when certain sectors are given unfair advantages over the market without being held accountable. I`m not sure what Friedman said about scientists, but I`d wager that a similar response would apply.

At the end of the day, I doubt there are many practical problems with Friedman`s position. The problems I see are more cultural or ethical, in that we would rather not live in his world, or any world where the privileged are not compelled, either through culture or government, to help the weak and hungry.

exploder : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

exploder

7 votes NegativePositive

40 days 6 hours ago...

I have a very hard time telling whether Friedman`s ideas are sound, or just clever excuses to let unethical sociopathic greedy monsters steal wildly from our societies with little or no repercussions. I expect a big helping of both.

In this interview, Phil did a poor job of asking the question, but Milton totally dodged the real question. He bulshitted his way through a bait and switch, designed to distract us from the very real ethical crimes committed in the name of "free market capitalism". These crimes are clearly perpetrated in greed, with utter disregard for any sane or decent ethics. Friedman`s own moral standing is questionable so far as he tries to deliberately obscure these issues, and pretend that there are no alternatives, no problems, and no solutions. It makes me wonder who`s side he`s on.

I suspect that where Friedman`s ideas fail in practice, is that we have not extended the rule of law to soundly regulate macro economic wrongdoings. When we do regulate these things, it is often corrupted and biased, because the rulemakers share the same self interest as the potential violators of hypothetically sound law. We get laws and regulations that worsen the abuses.

Furthermore, we are still very much learning about economics, and only slowly coming to usefully understand what strange and abstract activities actually have harmfull, devestating, and unethical effects. We clearly understand when one person steals from another, or does direct violence to them, and so we easily write laws to regulate these activities for the betterment of society. No argument required. But it takes knowledge and insight that we are still trying to aquire, to understand what economics does, and how and why to regulate it.

I hope that over time we humans will learn enough to apply sound and fair law to economics, so that it can be ethically regulated without destroying the creativity of the marketplace, which is undoubtedly important and good as Friedman asserts.

I ultimately feel like Friedman is a kind of "free market" fundamentalist, about on par with many religious zealots. His views are dangerous because they fail to call for practical ethical solutions to the real problems of an imperfect world. Perhaps his free market utopia would be nice, but we are too far from it. Meanwhile, his ideas just excuse ever worse abuses and injustice, where our leaders (political and business) purport to impliment his ideals, but really only want to advantage themselves wherever possible.

Pharsical : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

Pharsical

1 votes NegativePositive

35 days 19 hours ago...

Friedman was an academic towards the end of his career (1947-1977), but before this time, he was actively involved in working on Roosevelt`s New Deal. The problem with economic theorists is that they eventually assume their way into irrelevance. "Great model, very intricate...what`s this supposed to predict again?" His book "Money Mischief" is one much more relevant for today.

It studies the effects of a change in the money supply. He uses his famous magic helicopter metaphor to help illustrate the effect of flooding the economy with dollars and then tightening the money supply very quickly. The helicopter in this case is the "Federal" Reserve. The money dropped from the sky onto people is the bailout package(s). Friedman says monetary theory concerns itself completely with what happens to the different players when the money supply either increases or decreases. That is the moment when the mischief happens, when wealth is transferred. I had to read it with a spreadsheet open to create my own examples b/c at the time I didn`t have much confidence in the assumptions he was making.

His contribution is his work on studying the money supply and how it has driven history, as well as his insight to stabilizing failed economies, like ours during the Great Depression. He really has some fascinating stories about that time. But when he spends 100 pgs building a bridge from monetary policy (economics) to justifying one system of government (politics), he loses me. Mainly b/c of the assumptions he makes along the way.

Stipoo : LVL 19: VP 2.8: said:

Stipoo

2 votes NegativePositive

35 days 18 hours ago...

Wealth is first created, not distributed.

Mark333 : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

Mark333

-4 votes NegativePositive

35 days 17 hours ago...

It is unfortunate Milton Friedman was unable to expound further on what he meant by self-interest (I don`t think he ever used the word greed in his writing). So I provide it here, again:

"Narrow preoccupation with the economic market has led to a narrow interpretation of self-interest as myopic selfishness, as exclusive concern with immediate material rewards. Economics has been berated for allegedly drawing far-reaching conclusions from a wholly unrealistic "economic man" who is little more than a calculating machine, responding only to monetary stimuli. That is a great mistake. Self-interest is not myopic selfishness. It is whatever it is that interests the participants, whatever they value, whatever goals they pursue. The scientist seeking to advance the frontiers of his discipline, the missionary seeking to convert infidels to the true faith, the philanthropist seeking to bring comfort to the needy —all are pursuing their interests, as they see them, as they judge them by their own values."
-Milton Friedman, Free to Choose, p27

@ exploder

what crime isn`t perpetrated by greed or self interest? Any crime must be an act of the free will. If it is an act of free will then it is derived from self-interest. Unless insanity drove you to commit a crime. But then again if you`re insane then you cannot be held responsible and therefore there was no crime at all. We live in a world of individuals who will always pursue their self-interest, whatever they are. Milton Friedman simply wishes to design a society that makes sure that that self-interest does the least harm and the most good.

Also, a free market is one that gives individual people the most freedom to shape the kind of values they wish society to pursue. Governments, more often than not, require conformity and uniformity. I`d prefer the individuals of a free market society rather than some appointed/elected bureaucrat/politician to define what is "fair", "sound", or "ethical".

Finally, as an economist, there are certainly a lot of things we still don`t understand. But one thing is for sure, pretty much all economists (excluding the hacks and including Paul Krugman) consider the free market as a good thing. Regulation is required under specific conditions already identified by economists (including Milton Friedman who NEVER said regulation was unnecessary).

cyfaws : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

cyfaws

5 votes NegativePositive

35 days 16 hours ago...

"Also, a free market is one that gives individual people the most freedom to shape the kind of values they wish society to pursue. Governments, more often than not, require conformity and uniformity. I`d prefer the individuals of a free market society rather than some appointed/elected bureaucrat/politician to define what is "fair", "sound", or "ethical"."

But you DON`T get that, that`s the problem. Are the MPAA`s biased ratings state controlled? No, they represent private, "free" interests. Have americans moviegoers become freer by having their films regulated by a private unnacountable institution that chose to glorify violence and demonize sex, give family-friendly ratings to big Holywood productions and NC-17 tags to indie films?




He doesn`t really make any point. He`s full of cynicism and rethorics, even more he`s hypocritical. He talks about freedom and yet he fully supported Pinochet and his extremely repressive military dictatorship in Chile solely because it allowed him to do his economic experiments which would have never taken place under Allende`s democratically elected leftist regime. He only cares about freedom when it comes to freedom of business. The rest is a fantasy propagated by the corporations that love his ideas. Liberation through consumption (TM).

He argues that people are driven by self-interest which is false. Most people aren`t sociopaths and in fact often take pleasure in helping others. Of course they can be trained in not doing that just as the army trains you to kill other people just because they had the misfortune of being born in the "enemy" country.

His assumption that the free market is good is based, among others, on the presumption that people(eg consumers, future employees) make rational and informed choices. When in fact the same businesses that may be the targets of those choices use marketing techniques to insure that people`s choices are anything but rational and informed.

He also says that great change didn`t come from governments. True, but it didn`t come from corporations either. It wasn`t some cotton mill owner in the south who abolished slavery, it was slaves revolting. It wasn`t Henry Ford who made the 8-hour workday possible, it was the workers struggles. And it wasn`t Coca Cola who abolished racial segregation but blacks going into the streets and participating in civil disobedience.

A strong government may not be the solution but neither is right wing libertarianism. That would only drag us back to the feudal ages.

oddjob458 : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

oddjob458

0 votes NegativePositive

35 days 14 hours ago...

This thread is too serious for me :(

Drue : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Drue

1 votes NegativePositive

35 days 14 hours ago...

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/137389/Milton-Friedman-on-Greed.html

Cahu : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Cahu

0 votes NegativePositive

35 days 11 hours ago...

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Churchill - House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947

venom2 : LVL 8: VP 1.7: said:

venom2

3 votes NegativePositive

35 days 11 hours ago...

While he is correct in our current beliefs, we ALL know that our current path will lead to the death and destruction of this world.

There has to be another way to get beyond self interest. You can look at those beings on this planet, great and small, that work together as a hive say for Bee`s and Ants or individualistic such as humans and other mammals.

Both "system" work, but both slow the advancement of that species. Hive minds tend to be robotic and routine to the extremes. Individualism treads to much on other individuals and also uses a mob mentality not unlike the hive system such as in Religion and other organizations.

We must get out of our way of thinking but that will not happen for thousands of years. What that system is? No one knows, but the removal of religion and money are a start.

cyfaws : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

cyfaws

1 votes NegativePositive

35 days 9 hours ago...

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Churchill - House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947

This is about free-market capitalism not democracy. Capitalism doesn`t imply a need for democracy.

Cahu : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Cahu

3 votes NegativePositive

35 days 9 hours ago...

But he applies the same principle, that capitalism is the lesser evil.

"Capitalism generates poor people, why don`t we change?"
"Because the other options are worse"

Post a Comment:

Avatar

The Spikedhumor Drawing!Moderators Contest
Prize
Entry Dates: 11/4/2008-12/15/2008

Recent Blog Posts

Golfers Could Be Driving Them...

Theory: Stonehenge 'Built for...

Boy Shoots Babysitter For Ste...

Next-generation Space Toilet

Child Elopers' Wedding Plans ...

A Farewell To George Dubya Bu...

Man Kills Son Over Child Supp...

Man Covered In Feces Attacks ...

Hotlinks on Spiked

Chickipedia 10 Most Wanted Chicks

Filmbender: Slumdog Millionaire Earns Every Penny

5 Celebrities Most Likely To Die In 09

Chuck "Old Dog" Liddell Decides to Learn New Tricks

Hilarious & Crazy Signage

January Free MP3 Downloads

The 7 Commandments All Video Games Should Obey

The 10 Creepiest Craigslist Casual Encounters

How To Hook Up With Your Girlfriend's Roommate

Spiked Classics of 2007

Brooke Burke Photo Shoot
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.2
  • 5
1311360
chinup
View Profile
Level: 41
Voting Power: 4.9

A Nightmare on Elm Street...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.2
  • 5
237506
leo_1986
View Profile
Level: 13
Voting Power: 2.2

Derren Brown Photo Booth ...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.4
  • 5
272264
joshkemnitz
View Profile
Level: 33
Voting Power: 4.2

Derren Brown Simulating D...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.3
  • 5
192528
joshkemnitz
View Profile
Level: 33
Voting Power: 4.2

A-10 Thunderbolt II
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.1
  • 5
192465
chinup
View Profile
Level: 41
Voting Power: 4.9

Real Time - “They Should ...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.3
  • 5
296062
PorridgeGun
View Profile
Level: 49
Voting Power: 5

New Timeshift Trailer!
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.6
  • 5
643714
dezscyth
View Profile
Level: 5
Voting Power: 1.4

Monty Python and the Holy...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.3
  • 5
131964
Gshockx21
View Profile
Level: 30
Voting Power: 3.9

The Most Dangerous Road I...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.4
  • 5
404011
Thorno
View Profile
Level: 39
Voting Power: 4.7

Breakin' - Turbo's Broom ...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.4
  • 5
192470
PorridgeGun
View Profile
Level: 49
Voting Power: 5

Anaconda Squeezes The Shi...
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4.3
  • 5
3610588
Thorno
View Profile
Level: