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Atheist IQ - Faith vs Reason

Richard Dawkins reads The God Delusion on the subject of Science, Religion and Intelligence.

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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

MysticMan : LVL 22: VP 3.1: said:

MysticMan

Hidden (Show Comment) -43 votes

437 days 15 hours ago...

"The only webiste i could find that clamined to list nobel prize winning scientific christians (believers of god) came up with 6"

He did not look very hard.

http://www.adherents.com/people/100_Nobel.html - 50

*waits for some evolutionists to dispute yet again another website proving many scientists and knowledgable people believe in a higher being.

I am sure Richard states ideas and opinions he believes to be true as fact. It seems anything Richard says people will believe, like religious ministers.

What has the number nobel prize winners and the amount of scientists got to do with the argument of evolution being fact or not? if richard is using this as some some proof that evolution must be fact or god is made up, he is really scrapping the bottom of his own barrel for anything to back up his argument. A VERY poor argument.

I can list at least over 100 well known highly respected scientists who believed in a higher power. Does that make god more real? no.

Here is an example:
www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

There are more scientist belieing in evolution because it is the job of science to solve mysteries without recourse to divine intervention.


Evolutionists put down religious groups because they act higher and more moral than anyone else, but athiests do the exact same, taking it one step further saying they are also more intelligent.

It has come down to an argument over how is smarter and more decent moral people.

rybear4513 : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

rybear4513

Hidden (Show Comment) -53 votes

437 days 13 hours ago...

i pray for all you sinners

LeighCedar : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

LeighCedar

31 votes NegativePositive

437 days 12 hours ago...

"but athiests do the exact same, taking it one step further saying they are also more intelligent."

- No, just better educated. Now the argument can be made that increased levels of education correlate with increased intelligence, but all that is said here is the FACT that statistically the more educated one becomes, the less likely they are to be religious.

Furthermore, this is not just him attacking religious people for no reason. He is responding directly to the creationist claim that there are "many" scientists that don`t believe in evolution.
Of course we know that most of these "scientists" tend to not be real scientists, and are outnumbered hundreds of times by scientists named Steve, for example, who do think evolution is correct.

Edit: and we have some major problems with the list you put up Mystic. My guess is Dawkins probably found it, saw the first glaring error, and went looking for a more accurate one.
EINSTEIN DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!
Can`t trust any of the list if they screw up the very first, most famous person.

And of course, Dawkins is talking about creationists claims of personal, biblical gods. Not just people who follow some sort of religious beliefs.

psychologyprofessor : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

psychologyprofessor

4 votes NegativePositive

437 days 9 hours ago...

Here is just one of the sources that Dawkins used on the subject of Nobel laureates in his research for The God delusion.

The Psychology of Religious Behaviour, Belief and Experience By Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, Michael Argyle

Dawkins:

A more systematic study by Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi `found that among Nobel Prize laureates in the sciences, as well as those in literature, there was a remarkable degree of irreligiosity, as compared to the populations they came from`.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=mVTn7G-tN6YC&oi=fnd&pg

=PR8&dq=Beit-Hallahmi+and+Argyle+(1997).&ots=Ltl934ORPq&sig=A68X9xV
qBzx
HBpMWDccKwFT_4iQ#PPA180,M1

Type in "Nobel" in the search this book bar or go to page 180

I goes on for about 3 pages citing 12 studies that show an inverse relationship between religiosity and education and/or quality of education at universities.

None of Dawkins` sources use wikipedia as a research tool and MISTIC MAN your first website barrows from wikipedia. The use of wiki in any scientific or research literature is immediately discredited.

But to be fair your first website does have a good amount of credible sources but lets look at the numbers. Dawkins claims to have investigated both the science (physics, chemistry, medicine) and literature Nobel laureates of the 21st century. Your first website list 35 science and literature laureates. Since the 1901 there have been more than 400 Nobel laureates in these respective fields. Is 35 really the best that this website could manage, many of which are questionable?? Your going to have to do a lot better than a mere Google search to make claims against the likes of Dawkins.

Here is a link to Richard’s book:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/d31dd760-c3f0-4318-8dd2-d00fb91799eb/Richa

rd.Dawkins.-.The.God.Delusion.(2006)

MysticMan : LVL 22: VP 3.1: said:

MysticMan

Hidden (Show Comment) -29 votes

436 days 23 hours ago...

@LeighCedar

"there are "many" scientists that don`t believe in evolution.
Of course we know that most of these "scientists" tend to not be real scientists"

nope Nicholas Copernicus was never a creationist or Isaac Newton, and it was copernicus who first suggested the world was round.

"and we have some major problems with the list you put up Mystic. My guess is Dawkins probably found it, saw the first glaring error, and went looking for a more accurate one."

If he did find it he dismissed it because it does support his argument that well. So the list i gave where not scientists, or people who beleived in creation? ok

"EINSTEIN DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD"

there are many different sites claiming he did and others claiming he did not. Hew was brought up in a jewish family so i would lean towards that he at least thought their might be a higer power.

MysticMan : LVL 22: VP 3.1: said:

MysticMan

Hidden (Show Comment) -27 votes

436 days 23 hours ago...

"None of Dawkins` sources use wikipedia as a research tool and MISTIC MAN your first website barrows from wikipedia"

Almost every single website i am given to show evolution has Proof is wikipedia sites, even legh has given me many wiki sites to show evidence of evolution.

I have never put a wiki site here in these discussions because i know the site can be added in by anyone. Ever think that people who add things on wiki pinch things from other websites?

"Dawkins claims to have investigated both the science (physics, chemistry, medicine) and literature Nobel laureates of the 21st century. Your first website list 35 science and literature laureates. "

Dawkins words is law, dawkins cant be questioned dawkins is evolutionists pope.

Congratulations evolution have more scientist on their side. Tell them what they have won carl... a band new large EGO.

"Since the 1901 there have been more than 400 Nobel laureates in these respective fields"

Al gore is nominated to win a nobel prize, nobels are not just given to "smart" people.

"Is 35 really the best that this website could manage, many of which are questionable?? "

If i did more study i am sure i could come up with alot more, but you would just discredit them and say they are not real scientist.

Evolutionists are getting desperate to use how many "smart" people beleive in evolution as proof/evidence evolution is fact.

darkangeledge : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

darkangeledge

16 votes NegativePositive

436 days 19 hours ago...

^ mysticman don`t you have some other shit to do than spam spikedhumor with your nonsense ? go pray for god to send you a wife or something !

psychologyprofessor : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

psychologyprofessor

20 votes NegativePositive

436 days 14 hours ago...

Mysticman check my source and download Richard`s book.

The god delusion has an 11 pages of references and
Richard`s words are only worth listening to because
HE PROVIDES SOURCES.

One source I have looked up for you so you may examine the evidence for yourself.

Quit being a fool and educate yourself.

MTHunter : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

MTHunter

14 votes NegativePositive

436 days 7 hours ago...

I feel special when they say 10% of us are athiests. Either I`m one of the smart few or 90% of the others are dumb. Either way I feel elite, although a world with all smart people would be nice...*sigh*

LeighCedar : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

LeighCedar

9 votes NegativePositive

435 days 22 hours ago...

``nope Nicholas Copernicus was never a creationist or Isaac Newton, and it was copernicus who first suggested the world was round. ``

- Sigh... so many things wrong with that statement.... where to begin.
First off you seem to be arguing my point now. Or did you mean Evolutionist rather than creationist?
Next, I`ll assume you mean<t that they were never èvolutionists`. One, the term evolutionist is not a proper term. Two, they lived before the Darwinian theory of natural selection existed so other theories of evolution were not near as popular. Three, not believing in god at that time meant getting killed... so èveryone`` was a believer.
Finally, Copernicus was NOT the first person to suggest the world was round... do a little research. This was a commonly held idea around the world. Copernicus was just willing to speak out against the small minded religious view of the earth.
Research Please!

``there are many different sites claiming he did and others claiming he did not.``

- Yes there are, but those are based on lies. The sites you refer to intentionally take Einstein out of context, or cut off his quotes half way to make it sound like he is saying something he is not.

For example, here is Einstein responding to the very idea of people thinking he was religious:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
[Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]

LeighCedar : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

LeighCedar

5 votes NegativePositive

435 days 22 hours ago...

``Almost every single website i am given to show evolution has Proof is wikipedia sites, even legh has given me many wiki sites to show evidence of evolution.``

- Yes I do, and I defend it as well. But Psyc is right, Wikipedia can`t be used for research paper citations. That was his point.

``Evolutionists are getting desperate to use how many "smart" people beleive in evolution as proof/evidence evolution is fact.``

_Again, no. In the original context, Dawkins was simply refuting an illegitimate claim that MANY scientists support creationism.

ANd again, please stop calling us Evolutionists. It is a term that immediately shows you to not know how science works.
Should we call you a Gravityist?

vyrtualdogg : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

vyrtualdogg

10 votes NegativePositive

435 days 10 hours ago...

mysticman must get off on looking stupid.

"yeah, i love god! Tell me I`m bad!" *fap fap fap*

LOL

Tajumera : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Tajumera

7 votes NegativePositive

435 days 9 hours ago...

It is pretty obvious that intelligent people are less likely to believe in god(s) and religion in general. God(s) because they are a statistical improbability, and religion because it is a man-made authoritarian power structure.

That is not to say that god(s) are an improbability, but that belief in god(s) is completely subjective. I say god(s), because those who believe in any god always seem to be monotheistic and consider polytheism ridiculous. No doubt it is easier to create and maintain an authoritarian power structure if there is only one man at the top.

Tajumera : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Tajumera

4 votes NegativePositive

435 days 7 hours ago...

Started well, but the indoctrination is strong with this one.

Only good and evil? Bullshit. Good people are capable of great evils, especially when religion or another form of manipulation is involved. And people can change, from good to evil or vice versa.

Of course poor people are likely to be religious, poor people are likely to be stupid. They have crappier education, nutrition and facilities than the rich.

"If I were such a spoiled intelligent boy I would thank God for being so blessed."
No, you would thank your parents for working hard to provide you with a good education.

And why does this always end with you getting poetic and threatening to impale people?

1randomguy08 : LVL 15: VP 2.4: said:

1randomguy08

-3 votes NegativePositive

435 days 7 hours ago...

It`s funny because I`ve noticed a lot of computer geeks/ science minded people are atheist.

Try this:
1.In facebook type the name of a large IT company from your city you`re familiar with
2. Click "search" then click on the "people" tab
3.Click on the profiles of the search results and you`ll see that most are proud athiest.

The results I got were like "jedi" "wet snatch" "two cows" etc lol

Why is this the case?
I believe it could be for the following reasons:
A) Geeks are mainly logical, mathematical minded people as oppose to free thinking, imaginative people (see personality traits)
B)Geeks have higher IQ`s and higher levels education therefore understand why "religion is bs"
C) It could have been the culture they have learned from being around other atheist on say sites, like digg, spikedhumor or generally on the intranetz

The reasons why I believe, I am atheist is mainly reasons A & B. I also believe C) could have also contributed to my atheism.. and of course how fucking stupid religion looks when you see different sects, mass kills the other sects (see crusades, jihad, violence in India, Africa, Asia etc)

What do you guys think?

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