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Allegory of the Cave

A story of open-mindedness and the power of possibility by Plato.

  • Emophyl
  • posted by Emophyl
  • Date 9/9/2008 2:12:29 PM
  • Views: 2865
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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Tada : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

Tada

3 votes NegativePositive

442 days 17 hours ago...

Plato > Modern philosophers, with exceptions to Nietzsche.

fryser_d : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

fryser_d

29 votes NegativePositive

441 days 7 hours ago...

Life itself in every degree is an illusion.

You can believe that you are your brain, or not.
And I know talking about “before and after death” is dangerous in that upcoming atheist world,
but just try to get my point. ;-)

Only by standing in one dimension(3th=space), you can only see the next dimension by layers(4th=Time). So like the people in the cave, we were born thinking by layers, with time passing by. We get life, we live, we die. But as strange at it may sounds... that doesn`t make any sense in the real universe.

You were never born, and you will never die. o_0

(Newton)Science is, and will always be “stuck” in this dimension, so therefore we can only see and experiment from and to this dimension (like the people, chained to the wall and can only see what they can). So this is where we must create laws like “Nothing is created, nothing is lost”, this is the basis of our science. Every child when they heard that for the first time, get that it doesn`t make any sense. But for our reality (dimension), it`s 100% “real”(true).

We can have fun and trying to understand how our universe was created, (Super-strings, M-theory, etc...). But before even all that, you must have a starting point(when/where the membrane was created, etc...). This is where (I think) our understanding stops. And I don`t pretend neither that we have the capacity(brain or other) to understand an all-auto-recursive-existing-universe too :(. But it`s important to understand the illusion of it.

The only place where we can access others dimensions, it`s in the quantum world. By observing particle and energy react. We now have a better understanding of the quantum field where “mater” come and goes.

If we accept that we`re living in a multi-dimensional universe, we can either think that:
1- Our choice don`t affect nothing, that we are just slave of causality (trigged only by drugs, pulsions and outside sensible experiments) “Action/reaction” like a machine.

2- Or have a “feet” outside the system. Having a part of us outside our dimension where we can consciously choose. If that`s the case, every time we make a choice, as crazy as it sounds, we split the universe with all the possibles probabilities and we choose(collapse) OUR own reality. “I hope that`s not too deep :S, I can explain more if you ask). Some quantum experiments have proven that it`s “possible”. Some quantum experiments proven that mater is bouncing from a field connecting everything as a whole.

By observing the complexity of that universe, I think it`s acceptable to think that is possible that we`re living an illusion and a part of us is connected with a greater part than our own little brain.

God, I hope somebody can make any sense of all that :-)
I would love to know what you think of it.

BTW, thx for the video... good old Plato ;-)

NO-FATCHICKS : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

NO-FATCHICKS

21 votes NegativePositive

440 days 9 hours ago...

Man, I just started philosophy in school and had to read this for tonight.

I can`t help but think that Spiked is getting way more educational when this is the 2nd place I look after Google.

Sweet video btw.

russo3000 : LVL 12: VP 2.1: said:

russo3000

Hidden (Show Comment) -18 votes

439 days 11 hours ago...

fryser_d, your grammar is just as bad as your knowledge of physics....

shumbum : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

shumbum

7 votes NegativePositive

439 days 7 hours ago...

@ fryser_d:

You just blew my fucking mind.

SatanSteve666 : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

SatanSteve666

12 votes NegativePositive

439 days 7 hours ago...

The Truman Show is a good example of all this


We only perceive reality as we can see it, Keyword, See


good stuff!

Nightmare80 : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

Nightmare80

14 votes NegativePositive

439 days 6 hours ago...

@fryser_d:

You remind me of a novel called Flatland, one of the best science fiction novels of all time.

OK, here is what I think. We, as humans, represent everything using a set of dimensions that we can recognize. I am not talking about only 3D space and the fourth dimension of time. No, every individual dimension represents something that cannot be represented using a combination of other existing dimensions.

In other words, you can think of all your senses (seeing, hearing,etc) as individual dimensions. For example, if a person is born blind, can you explain to him different colors using voice (hearing dimension) or touch (another dimension)? You can only give him an idea but he will never truly understand colors until he can see. The same goes if someone is born deaf and so on.

What I am trying to say is: it is very possible that there are other dimensions that we are unaware of, as you mentioned. But without attaining those dimensions, we cannot explain them with our current dimensions. It goes against the very definition of a dimension. We may try to make sense of it using quantum physics as you mentioned but it is not the same as truly grasping them.

Thus, I believe, we will never be able to truly understand the universe.

DingoDango : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

DingoDango

11 votes NegativePositive

439 days 5 hours ago...

@russo3000

Talk about missing the point!

scavenger : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

scavenger

4 votes NegativePositive

439 days 4 hours ago...

Looks like someone did their homework.

MTHunter : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

MTHunter

-4 votes NegativePositive

439 days 4 hours ago...

Wow Nightmare80...that is some deep thinkin. But just call them senses, not dimensions. But nice point either way.

MANWHORE : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

MANWHORE

1 votes NegativePositive

438 days 20 hours ago...

"We only perceive reality as we can see it, Keyword, See"

Yes I agree, thats why athiesm is growing, people are losing their capacity for intuition and sensitivitey to feel. Its all about what we see and hear, we have another sense, close your eyes, block your ears, relax and you`ll eventually find it!

eNigma333 : LVL 26: VP 3.5: said:

eNigma333

2 votes NegativePositive

438 days 20 hours ago...

Great stuff, love the replies.

The only thing I know is the more we know, the more we learn that we dont know.

And if we could explain everything it would just be boring as hell! Just like christmas eve or the first time you have sex, its all the waiting thats exiting ^^

vormpie : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

vormpie

2 votes NegativePositive

438 days 19 hours ago...

great post by fryser...

But all that we "think" still happens in our own reality.
So if you think that you know it doesnt,.. isnt that like a deception?

Neruo_ : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

Neruo_

-2 votes NegativePositive

438 days 19 hours ago...

I would like to add, as a student of philosophy at a university, that Plato is of course greatly interesting and historically extremely relevant. However, as a philosophical theory, in the 21th century Plato`s theory is bullshit. Complete utter bullshit. If someone came up with it today, it would have been a horrible theory. His metaphysical nonsense about Ideas and such.

Really. Don`t pretend to yourself Plato is still taken seriously. The good lesson is to doubt your senses and initial perceptions, but great philosophers like Hume did that without all the weird metaphysical nonsense. Also, modern-day philosophy, the philosophy of Right now, is way more awesome, and more scientific.

Omnicron.4735 : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Omnicron.4735

3 votes NegativePositive

438 days 19 hours ago...

Wonderful!
It looks to that Mr fryser_d has taken a step out side the cave but Randomosity and russo3000 are still looking at the shadows.
This coming age of skepticism, atheism and agnosticism is nothing I want to be apart of.
I choose instead to wake up, get up and strive to find the truth myself. To toss out everything that I have been taught or told or read in a book. To start again from the beginning and believe only that which I have personally found or experienced.
You can parrot the Bible or R. Dawkings.
I choose to listen, evaluate what has been said, but get up and out of the "cave" and see for myself, leaving my Ego behind.
In the words of Lee Iacocca:
"Lead, follow or get out of the way."

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