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Insurance Company Rules!

The For-Profit companies responsible for keeping everyone alive use these rules with so much success, why wouldn't we translate them into every day life?

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15 Comments

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x60sec-Assassinx : LVL 16: VP 2.5: said:

x60sec-Assassinx

14 votes NegativePositive

136 days 16 hours ago...

God damn rich Corporate bastards and their lobbyist i say Chris Rock should rebuild Insurance Policies too "In Case Shit Happens"

exploder : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

exploder

4 votes NegativePositive

136 days 14 hours ago...

While the point of this ved is obviously true, and I give a 5/5 for haveng the balls to say what it does, I still have to ask this:

Who will pay for state run healthcare? You.

Take a look at what Ron Paul has to say about it. He`s got an interesting take on the issue, and he`s reasonably well qualified, being a seasoned physician, an honest politician, and well educated in economics. He has a couple of good points that we do well not to forget when thinking on the issue.

1. Government programs are corrupt and suck ass. Make medical into one, and you`ll see worse medical than ever. Veterans hospitals are a prime example. With corrupted goverments, we have to seriously think about bypassing the whole system if we want something that works.

2. Even if it could work, you can`t afford it. You can`t afford it. You can`t afford it. Repeat.

I`m in Canada, where we still have the memory of a public healthcare system that was good. Until it got sabotaged by our government, that over the last few decades grew up, took a lesson from American politics, and learned how to be nothing but a corrupt bunch of fuckers. Now it`s failing, and you Americans want to start up a system that your political ways guarantee will be nothing but a nightmare. I honestly have my doubts. Be very afraid. Don`t go in blindly with your eyes closed. The same forces that rule your country have recently fucked our good old healthcare, so to think that they could build something good for the USA is hard to imagine.

x60sec-Assassinx : LVL 17: VP 2.6: said:

x60sec-Assassinx

17 votes NegativePositive

136 days 12 hours ago...

Well not just Medical Insurance, all the fucking insurance agencies for every god damn fucking thing.

ServusDei : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

ServusDei

7 votes NegativePositive

136 days 11 hours ago...

It`s a lose-lose situation. State-sponsored healthcare systems tend to be inept and insurance companies tend to screw people out of their money.

There is an argument, though, that insurance companies and the vunerability of physicians to lawsuits are heavily responsible for the insanely high prices of even simple medical procedures. Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Is there a third way that bypasses the need for insurance companies or state-sponsored healthcare?

exploder : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

exploder

2 votes NegativePositive

136 days 10 hours ago...

Ron Paul is suggesting that individuals should be able to put their own pre-tax dollars into a personal/family health account. That way anyone making any money can buy their own health care way cheaper (without the taxes), and it gets rid of the insurance company and government go-betweens. He suggests that insurance should be for real unforseen stuff only, not just a roundabout way to pay for the routine stuff that we all need anyways. Makes mucho sense to me.

Crompee : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Crompee

5 votes NegativePositive

136 days 9 hours ago...

1. Government programs are corrupt and suck ass. Make medical into one, and you`ll see worse medical than ever. Veterans hospitals are a prime example. With corrupted goverments, we have to seriously think about bypassing the whole system if we want something that works.

Kinda flawed logic here, as by your logic your private health care should be quiet high up the rankings in the world (when compared to europe and other countrys) but instead your healthcare is ranked 37th (last time i checked) in the world and your way below some countrys where you really shouldnt be.

2. Even if it could work, you can`t afford it. You can`t afford it. You can`t afford it. Repeat.

Since when has American politicians cared if they can afford it or not.. Your country cant afford to live the way its living now and it still does. You just need some politicians to

Or if you want to look at it another way, UK had some of the highest tax in the world but up until afew years ago.. we also had one of the highest diposable incomes.

ServusDei : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

ServusDei

5 votes NegativePositive

136 days 9 hours ago...

Crompee:
1) I assume you are referring to the American healthcare system when you say "your." (I am an American residing in the UK, and Exploder said he was in Canada.) In any case, to say that government sponsored healthcare will make our medical system worse does not mean we should be ranked higher (by some nebulous ranking committee, but that`s another topic). It only means that we are poor where we stand now and it can get worse. We recognize that our current system is nearly broken, but that does not mean that socialized medicine is the only alternative.

2)Many American politicians do care whether or not we can afford it. If they didn`t, we would already have state sponsored healthcare.

(On a side note, since you brought up the UK system, I have already used it somewhat extensively and I do not see it as anything superior to the American system. True, I don`t pay taxes, and so the UK taxpayers are paying for my healthcare. Thanks! Getting to a GP for small stuff is certainly faster and just as good, but once you need to see the specialists via a referral, it gets much slower and less effecient. Nobody owns their own equipment so you have to keep seeing other specialists who already have a backlog of patients. I`m glad you have (had?) a high disposable income... too bad everything is more expensive.)

Crompee : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Crompee

9 votes NegativePositive

136 days 4 hours ago...

ServusDeui:
1. Should of been more specific, its just become a force of habit. I`m kind of nieve in the approaches of Healthcare as i can only see that goverment sponsored healthcare is the only way to ensure that 100% of the population gets the adequate care required and have yet to see another system which would ensure that this would happen. As without goverment sponsorship or intervention the poor will never be able to afford the same care as the rich.

2. Sorry, just checked my statement and it cutoff midsense. Was meant to read that you just need some politicians in office who could actually budget for it.. As seen by many countrys in the world (excluding the UK as we are now in deficit, so not a good example :p) tn can be done while maintaining a good enough disposable income to live on (and live on comfortably).

Another flaw in the american system in terms of `cant afford it` is that american`s actually spend the most on healthcare than any other country (results found in the WHO report dated: 2000).

The UK health system is in no way superior to the American system in the terms of efficiency or quality (prevention is debatable though). The reason we are much higher on the WHO rankings of Health Care is that our system offers healthcare to 100% of the population which is the #1 thing you`d want from a healthcare system, it should not descriminate against the poor.

We could continue this debate forever and you`re right in some regards, its just i phrased it badly in my first attempt.

mixednuts : LVL 15: VP 2.4: said:

mixednuts

3 votes NegativePositive

136 days 3 hours ago...

I am not a "fan" of Michael Moore but his film Sicko compares the healthcare systems of many countries and discusses the topic of health insurance.

exploder : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

exploder

2 votes NegativePositive

135 days 23 hours ago...

^ Crompee, I agree with you. We can afford healthcare. The only real question is can we afford insurance or government management as leaches on top of it? The fact that Americans pay more for healthcare than anyone else is likely tied to the number of insurance leeches already sucking blood there. And you would therefore think that if the money could be better spent, then everybody could have healthcare, which is absolutely what needs to happen.

My concern is still the issue of government corruption. It seems like most of the socialized healthcare systems in the world were established with rules in place a few decades ago, so they have rules that actually keep the corporate greed in check. Indeed, as Canada`s experience seems to indicate, even those are being slowly subverted over time, and our systems are getting worse and worse as a result.

To establish a brand new system in the USA at this point in history seems like it would be just another permanent corporate giveaway, the way those things go. That is if they can even beat down the current insurance leeches enough to even do it.

Good luck is all I have to say. It`s probably got to be one of the most fundamentally noble goals, but that kind of vision seems pretty hard to keep clear these days.

jrholleypsc : LVL 4: VP 1.3: said:

jrholleypsc

-2 votes NegativePositive

135 days 23 hours ago...

The bulk of the problem with insurance companies is not the companies themselves.

I would tend to place more of the blame on lawyers. Keep in mind, that it`s lawyers that sue insurance companies for multi-million dollar settlements for such frivilous things as some clutz-ass spilling his hot coffee in his lap. Was it the restaurant`s fault? Well I guess so, because the coffee was served HOT! Nobody drinks HOT coffee anymore, so this guy deserves a few million dollars for his pain and suffering. And since the lawyer did such a good job of retrieving that money from the restaurant`s insurance company, I guess he should get a few million as well. The higher the settlement, the higher the payoff. As a general rule, lawyers take an average fee of around 33% of a total settlement`s value, in addition to other accrued fees, such as travel, and paperwork, and filing, etc. etc. etc...

The bulk of the problem, is in the fact that the rules are never going to change. 98% of our government, is run by lawyers. Nearly every single politician in our government is a lawyer, and they write the laws that govern us "peons" in our society. When have you ever known a lawyer to work for the good of someone other than himself?

Look at it this way. By definition, "laws" are clearly-defined rules that govern the general function of society. If this is truly the case, why does anyone require the services of a lawyer to interpret the laws for them? Joe Blow can not walk into a law library, pull out a book, and start reading. At least not without some form of legal training. The laws, as they are currently written, are made to be twisted in whichever way the lawyer that happens to be "interpreting" them sees fit to do so. Until the underlying rules change regarding the functional purpose of a lawyer, this will never stop. Frivilous law suits will continue to rape insurance companies, forcing them to in turn rape us, the consumer.

BananaSplitz : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

BananaSplitz

-1 votes NegativePositive

135 days 22 hours ago...

[Insert REALLY LONG text here]
Wait for very long counter points to my statement
Post Again with a rebuttal
End

Crompee : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Crompee

1 votes NegativePositive

135 days 22 hours ago...

@ Exploder
Quote:the fact that Americans pay more for healthcare than anyone else is likely tied to the number of insurance leeches already sucking blood there.

Completly correct but its also the pharmaceutical companies as well which charge much higher for the same drugs and medicines than europeon countries (and other countries).

Quote:And you would therefore think that if the money could be better spent, then everybody could have healthcare, which is absolutely what needs to happen.

Although you are right, as Healthcare and Pharmaceutical companies profits are now in the billions.. those profits could quiet easily support those who currently dont have healthcare and pharmaceutical.

However, to play Devils Advocate.. that simply cannot happen as to have a Goverment Controlled healthcare system (and Pharmaceutical system to some extent) the price (or indeed taxation) would go down in many cases. For example, the people who can only just afford health insurance would certainly want to see a price cut to where they could afford it more easily. What this means, is that to make up this lost money they would need to impose more taxes on the rich and even more on `super rich` and this simply would never happen in a corrupt goverment.

Crompee : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Crompee

1 votes NegativePositive

135 days 22 hours ago...

Quote: My concern is still the issue of government corruption. It seems like most of the socialized healthcare systems in the world were established with rules in place a few decades ago, so they have rules that actually keep the corporate greed in check.

You`re right in a sense but also forget that politicians and goverments can easily replace or ignore rules (i dont think i need to prove this point :p). For example, in the UK it is not the rules which are keeping us from getting a complete private healthcare system it is the public and the media. If any politician or prime minister would come out and publically say that they are going to try and abolish the N.H.S, there would be outcry from the Media and the Public. However, once again this does not stop the corrupted officials or companies from going ahead and doing it anyway; it simply slows them down. To take the UK again, we will get private health care at some point.. it is just a matter of time as officials slowly implement behind closed doors (they recently brought in a law to allow privatised GP`s and Doctors offices, which publically `is an effort to force competition between GP`s which will lower que times and higher quality` but it is just one small step towards the full implementation of privitesed healthcare).

but to get back onto your issue of goverment corruption in a more general manner.. there is simply no way of avoiding it. The way our system`s work and our so called `democracy` allows corruption to thrive and go unpunished, while the educated can see it clearly.. there is no stopping it now short of a revolution which wont happen unless they overstep the mark (which they won`t.. being corrupt doesnt stupid).

Quote: To establish a brand new system in the USA at this point in history seems like it would be just another permanent corporate giveaway, the way those things go. That is if they can even beat down the current insurance leeches enough to even do it.

A brand new system in the USA will never happen. The most you can hope for is more enforced rules on Insurance Companys ensuring they always provide adequate healthcare and a safety net put in place for when they fail or for those that cannot afford it (Although, i cannot think of a way to implement such a safety net).

Crompee : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

Crompee

1 votes NegativePositive

135 days 22 hours ago...

@jrholleypsc
While i may agree with you to some extent, this discussion and video is about Health Care Insurance and not Insurance Companys in general.

As i may be wrong but what drives up the price of health insurance isnt frivilous court cases (as from what ive seen/read, its usually the health insurance company which takes the consumer to court to void the contract on frivilous grounds :p). It is infact the need and neccessitiy which keeps the price high, in theory they can charge as much as they like for healthcare and the consumer would still pay.. as its not something they have a choice over.

P.S. Sorry for the multiple posts, i went on a spamming spree and it wouldnt let me post such long replies in one go :p

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