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Brief History Of China And Tibet In The ...

You may not agree with his opinion, but you should not deny the fact of history. Learn more about Chinese history before making a judgment. Think independently and don`t be misled by others.

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15 Comments

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stevenkoalae : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

stevenkoalae

11 votes NegativePositive

87 days 1 hour ago...

Here is a link to a video took, by an Aussie, which captures the "peaceful protest" in Tibet:
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/149238/First-Cut-Aussie-capture

s-Tibet-riots-on-camera.html

Here is some information about Dalai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWGGjpJJCKE

First hand news report by James Miles:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

The information about is as neutral as it gets,
and for those know don`t know who is Michael Parenti, here is a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Parenti

If you want to disprove something, please prove evidence. Rational debates or commends about this issue will be much appreciated!

fuckwit : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

fuckwit

Hidden (Show Comment) -13 votes

86 days 23 hours ago...

I`m very against the Dalai Lama becoz I`m very for sex during the day!

Yeah, it`s a sin to have sex during the day is just one of the crazy shit the Dalai Lama decrees...he aint peace and love but authority and power!

AdolfOliverBush : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

AdolfOliverBush

0 votes NegativePositive

86 days 22 hours ago...

He is extremely biased.

While I completely agree that it is very important to study history and that television and the media is garbage, he completely fails to even acknowledge China`s NUMEROUS human rights violations and malevolent acts of the past.

Also, he discredits Tibet for their actions in the past. But in the time Tibet was doing those things, what was China doing? How much better were even the Western "Imperialist Criminals?"

And what about what is happening RIGHT NOW?
China continues its pattern of crushing human rights and committing atrocities. Even if Tibet has done wrong in the past, is that reason for China`s actions?

I honestly see China as the biggest threat to the world. Even moreso than our own government. At least they do enough to keep up the facade of freedom and benevolence.

stevenkoalae : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

stevenkoalae

21 votes NegativePositive

86 days 21 hours ago...

I agree with you AdolfOliverBush, China has its problems. Lots government official are corrupted and police do violates our rights. But you have to remember China is still in a developing stage, conflicts and injustice are quite unavoidable. If you guys go to protest very time China did something stupid. You won`t even have time to sleep.

I bet you didn`t check out the history of China and find out more about what happened in Tibet. Or else, you won`t ask those questions. That guy basically read out my Asian history textbook...so it`s quite unlikely that he is being "extremely" bias.

To answer you questions, when Tibet was "independent", China was in a civil war. Warlords controlled different provinces and tried to united China. Then, came the Japanese during WW2 who basically slaughtered 10s millions of citizens for fun.
So...I guess you have to excuse China not being able to help Tibet during that time. Moreover, the Chinese government (before the communist part) was trying to give Tibet high independence to government the province themselves. That`s why China didn`t help those slaves. However, when the communist party took control, the new government wanted to "liberate" all working class from their "land lords". So they "invaded" Tibet during the 1950s.

Futuremore, I assume the "action" you refer to is about the army fired shots at the riot, right? I guess you should check out one of the links above. Although I don`t think China handle the situation well, but I guess force is needed before more innocent "Hang" Chinese were killed. There are 1 billion people in China and we are not idiots. When 99% of the population against western support to "free Tibet", you know there has be something wrong.

Also, for your information, the Zang (Tibet people) actually enjoys the best privileges. For example, farmers don`t have to pay tax and they are allow to have more than one child unlike the others.

Also, I really don`t think you need to worry about the Chinese government. They are much more worry about losing control of their boarder cities and it will take years till they have the abilities to bully others like what US is doing.

So, please... learn more about China before making a judgment. So I don`t have to spent 30mins typing an essay. I still have to deal with my 3rd year final exams ;)

EDIT:
AusTerran, I don`t see US give the Indian`s land back and if you think my commend is bias, please point out where so I can double check if I am wrong about it. Also...if u know a little bite about Tibet history, u will know Tibet is a part of China for 1000 years already (if u think including Yuan dynasty is bias~ well fine, then 400 years starting Qing dynasty) Proof me wrong.

AusTerran : LVL 11: VP 2: said:

AusTerran

Hidden (Show Comment) -8 votes

86 days 20 hours ago...

Chinese government would be proud of this guys comments.
What a biased comment he is making on their history. True about their 3 class system over 100 years ago, but does not stop the people wishing to rule their own lives and land. Was Croatia wrong too to want independence because during WW2 they supported the Nazis..

Chowdder : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Chowdder

5 votes NegativePositive

86 days 6 hours ago...

I agree that China has human rights issues, but people have to understand that less than 100 years ago, China was an imperialist state. That`s a stark contrast to what China is today. If you only look at what China is doing today, then you`re not getting the big picture. Extrapolate from the past to the future and you`ll see it continue to improve. So be optimistic about what will happen rather than pessimistic about what is currently happening.

Be reasonable with the human rights movement. Those people who are pushing for human rights in China are basically asking for something that took western countries centuries to achieve. If they thought China would change human rights if they won the Olympic bid then they were wrong. Human rights will improve in China, just don`t expect it to happen the next day.

AdolfOliverBush : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

AdolfOliverBush

8 votes NegativePositive

86 days ago...

@steven

Thanks. I went to public school in the States and Chinese History isn`t something we get a lot of. We are taught a lot of US History (obviously) and our would history classes are split between Europe, the Middle East, Russia, and only a little of Asia. This mostly is because during the time periods we study China was more or less Isolationist. When we do study Asia we learn about the Silk road and such, but we don`t get into too much detail. This is just secondary school, which explains the lack of any intense content.

Right now I`m nearing the end of my first year in college. I`m studying math and econ so I haven`t yet taken any college level history courses so I didn`t know much of what you said.

My point wasn`t that we should protest whenever China does something stupid. You`re right in that there`d be no for anything else, especially with the shit that the rest of the world does/ lets happen. I think we should use this opportunity to send the Chinese government the message that the world does not look kindly on human rights violations and that we do want change with respect to that. I know that sounds hypocritical, especially coming from an American, but trust me, our governments actions do not represent our wishes at all anymore.

Good luck with your exams.

stevenkoalae : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

stevenkoalae

6 votes NegativePositive

85 days 23 hours ago...

@AdolfOliverBush

Thx for being so calm and rational. Most people I talked to just automatically assume I am trying to justify our government`s action. I understand lots people worry about human rights issues in China. However, the support of independence of Tibet is different from opposing human rights violations. "Free Tibet" is actually an insult to the Chinese people and our culture. I want to make it clear that most of us hope the riot would end peacefully, but situation is out of control when Tibetans became violent targeted other Chinese races. I wish you can understand that the land of the Tibetans is not only their land, but it is also the land for the other races living there.

However, if you are protesting against the truth human right problems in China (such as unnecessary use of force and eviction). Most of the Chinese will appreciate ur support. Also, maybe you can help to fund the education system (although ur money WILL be misused) or go to China as a visitor teacher (It pays really well).

bty, I am also studying math and econ in Canada. Beware of those mathematic theory courses in the future, they can be ur worst nightmare.

rawrimadinosaur : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

rawrimadinosaur

-4 votes NegativePositive

85 days 15 hours ago...

So uhh.. wasn`t the tibetans attacking them Huns during the riots so they stepped in. Or am I being mislead.

Chowdder : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Chowdder

2 votes NegativePositive

85 days 13 hours ago...

^ It`s true, the riot on March 10 was an ethnically driven one where Tibetans are angry over the marginalization of their ethnicity due to immigrating Hans into the territory. More importantly, it`s a social discontent of the Tibetan toward the CCP and Hans. They fear for their own culture and their own prosperity as they view Hans are robbing them of their traditions and money. However, it was the Tibetans who attacked the Hans during the riot, which caused armies to move in in order to control the violence.

Frankly, I believe that the economic gap Tibet is experiencing lies mostly in education. Tibet is a poor province, most people are illiterate and few holds secondary educations. In this case, Tibetans are not being offered the educations they need to achieve equality with the Hans. I know this is a cliche, but "give a man a fish and he`ll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he`ll eat for life". So, CCP should teach Tibetans how to become prosperous.

I recall watching a documentary about the construction of the Tibetan railway and there are propaganda signs scattered a long the railway path, a reporter asked a Tibetan woman if she can read it and she responded with an honest "no".

AdolfOliverBush : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

AdolfOliverBush

2 votes NegativePositive

85 days 12 hours ago...

Yeah, my current classes are mixing in theory to prepare me for later, and it`s tough to adjust at first to that kind of thinking. Luckily, my specific major (Actuarial Science) allows me to avoid the upper level theory classes as I move into the applied statistical analysis that I`ll be using for my career. My first two years are more or less identical to a math major, except with econ injected in. I`ll what you told me in mind when I talk to my friends about what`s going on in China and Tibet. Thanks a lot for informing instead of insulting and best of luck to you in your studies.

Rboy : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

Rboy

-3 votes NegativePositive

80 days 20 hours ago...

America looks and china and its past
yet they dont want to aknowledge their wrong doings like
Killing al large amount of indian tribes to conquer their land
Going to africa and enslaving the people
NO country in the world has no history of violance
thats sad but true

chinup : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

chinup

3 votes NegativePositive

80 days 20 hours ago...

Biggest issue with china to my mind is its slaughtering people in the name of justice. Any legal system that thinks murdering people is a just solution can only be trusted to abuse power.

Nindjc : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

Nindjc

3 votes NegativePositive

80 days 19 hours ago...

@Steven

I thought this was very interesting, and I appreciate you posting it. I do think the world sometimes gets carried away with an "idea" that they don`t know much about just because it sounds good, or is the popular thing to do at the time. I am surprised that while everyone is talking about the protests, nobody has said a word about the 1.5 Million people that have been evicted from their homes with little or no compensation in preparation for the olympic games. I understand both sides of the Tibet argument, especially now that you have informed me that Tibet was a part of China for 1000 years before they declared independence. Although a small percent of China`s total population, 1.5m is a huge number of people.

DarkStar7 : LVL 10: VP 1.9: said:

DarkStar7

2 votes NegativePositive

80 days 18 hours ago...

History is merely the facts of the oppressive victors and not the defeated ones.

All governments will make mistakes. The USA DOES give back land to the Native Americans, but unfortunately their population is already so few. Native Americans can open casinos on their land to earn a lot of money, while the general public can not. Casino money is not taxed if it is used to improve tribal governments or life on the reservation. A recent Minnesota Supreme Court decision on sovereignty says, "Indian tribes are not states; nevertheless, they possess a kind of sovereignty superior to that of states but inferior to that of the federal government."

Americans history books, unlike British or China, have acknowledge most of its the wrongful deeds.

Chinese "Communist" Government still teach it children to look up to Mao Zedong, the man the led 40 million chinese to strave to death. 40million that is a conservative estimate compare to Japanese occupation, or colonial occupation. Communist Government still doesn`t not acknowledge any of it wrongful deeds. If you can`t acknowledge your mistakes, you`ll not learn from them.

Jews death toll from holocaust is 6 million and there are so many movies about it. A conservative estimate of 40million chinese death, but there are like zero movies about it. Of course the government in control can easily clean up any evidence past and present with complete control of their media.

Now this guy told u not to listen to the media. I say people have the right to listen to everything and make up their own conclusions. In China there is no freedom of the press. In American and industrialized countries from South Korea, Japan, Europe, and most of South America, people are free to print and read whatever they want.

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