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The Philospy Of Liberty

The basic beliefs of Libertarianism.

  • TheFence
  • posted by TheFence
  • Date 10/29/2007 1:29:35 AM
  • Views: 2618
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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

blue_devil : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

blue_devil

Hidden (Show Comment) -13 votes

390 days 13 hours ago...

this is making me dizzy

fryser_d : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

fryser_d

7 votes NegativePositive

390 days 12 hours ago...

Stocking how basic principles are nerver teached in class, when they are the fondation of our society.

I`ll give you power on my life, on exchange to be part of a society. I`ll give you my trust, my money, my voice and you will serve me, to give me a better society for me and the others.

And with all that power, some people still see it like a free ride on a roller coaster. Violate my voice and my trust.

Bastards... When you have a huge manifestation and everyone is against an idea and you still go for it... You should be put to jail for high treason.

PANEK ONE : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

PANEK ONE

11 votes NegativePositive

390 days 10 hours ago...

And Why Aren`t There Any Libertarians Running For Office??? Guess That`ll Go Against The Whole Principles, Right?? WE NEED TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!

draser : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

draser

12 votes NegativePositive

390 days 2 hours ago...

^ There are and his name is Ron Paul. He is on of the last few hopes for America, and chances are he will not win. I don`t agree with voting, but I may go vote for him.

If he is elected, I hope labor unions will flourish, that is true freedom.

Freedom form government masters, and freed from corporate masters.

Freedom....

Edit:
I am talking about Libertarian Socialism.(read up on Chonsky for better clarification, these ideas do not conflict with each other) I am for a limited government, but with strong labor unions to control the corporations. Our resources should be democratically controlled, since they are OUR resources, not some rich asshole who runs some big ass company.

In socialism, all the control is in the hands of the government, and we have all seen what big government does. But having separate labor unions, splits up the power, and keeps the control to the poeple in those specific industries, and focuses that power just on labor. With a Libertarian government, they stay the fuck out of our lives, and again separates the power.

There is more, so please go research it yourself.

WAKEupB4its2L8 : LVL 29: VP 3.8: said:

WAKEupB4its2L8

4 votes NegativePositive

389 days 23 hours ago...

I feel that if Ron Paul or Mike Gravel do not get elected, we, as a nation, NEED to rise up violently and demand that power be restored to it`s rightful owners. Us. We are the life-blood of government. They need us. For without us they cannot impose their will on anyone. I propose that, on July 4th, 2009, if there is someone in the White House that does not serve in the best interests of the American People, that we, the American People, should rise up in a Constitutionally protected Revolution. If you agree, spread the word. Independance Day `09.

frogleg : LVL 30: VP 3.9: said:

frogleg

2 votes NegativePositive

388 days 23 hours ago...

How does pureblood libertarianism justify the inherent injustices that are brought up by someone being born centuries before someone else?
How can I compete with the Rockefellers for example?

If property was impossible to inherit from one generation to the next I might believe more in pureblood libertarianism. As it stand right now I`m staying a social liberal. (or whatever the proper word would be)

I didn`t see inheretance as a product of your labour, or your time or anything of that nature. In fact, inheretance isn`t even in the equation.

"The inheritance of property can be interfered with more readily than the inheritance of talent. But from an ethical point of view, is there any difference between the two?"

I have no solution to stop genetics, however it would be possible even with todays technology to stop inheretance. Just because two things are similiar, and one thing can`t be stopped doesn`t mean both things then must be justified.

"Libertarianism is against labor unions." and so on.

Is that really true? I thought they also favoured freedom of will? If people want to band together to pressure their employer (i.e forming a union), then I as a liberal (at least), don`t see how this is incompatible?
Either way, I never saw companies as people and as such I could never extend the same rights to companies as I do to people. To me companies are property. Liberty is for people.

Im not trying to be right or wrong, in this case I`m just enjoying a philosophicalish discussion.

I cant stand Atlas shrugged, although I admit I only briefly read the synopsis and a pro-atlas review.
Does she believe that the only driving force for invention is being rich?
What about fame? Love? Immortality in the books? Friendship? FUN? I could keep going. Money has been the least likely driving force, or motivation, in my life.

Does she believe that all Atlases feels the same and has the same motivations? She doesn`t speak for all Atlases. There`s plenty of them without her motivations and plenty that never gets the chance (who most likely could fill the void perfectly when all others are shrugging). Funny btw, because that`s exactly what employers do during strikes.... But I guess you just can`t replace the genious of a CEO.
Any number of people can have the same idea at diffrent times, yet "there can only be one!" patentholder.

Tesla vs. Eddison. Two brilliant men, diffrent approach.

I bet the kind of people that work Wall street and politicians love this book though, despite not really providing shit to society comparable to scientists, in the first place.

Let Atlas shrug all he wants. It will be nice to see that line die out. I`m shrugging at Ayn Rand.

Edited away some about myself, since it`s really irrelevant.

dmens : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

dmens

-6 votes NegativePositive

388 days 23 hours ago...

^^
"If he is elected, I hope labor unions will flourish, that is true freedom."

lol, ron paul is one of the biggest free-trade and pro-corporate politicians in Congress.

fuck unions, they should all broken.

pony : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

pony

1 votes NegativePositive

388 days 22 hours ago...

^^ "fuck unions, they should all broken".
yeah lets go back to 1850`s when it was normal for children to work 14 hour shifts for almost no pay. No I got a better idea let`s all drop our pants, bend over and get dry raped by our employers.

dmens : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

dmens

0 votes NegativePositive

388 days 22 hours ago...

^^
technology and reduction of manual labor allowed a shorter work week, not the thuggish unions.

Mark333 : LVL 25: VP 3.4: said:

Mark333

1 votes NegativePositive

388 days 19 hours ago...

@Draser
Libertarianism is against labor unions. It implies limiting the freedom of companies to hire whoever they see fit and others to offer their services for whatever payment they see fit. You end up with distorted prices and consumers paying more for a good than they otherwise would`ve wanted.

@frogleg (I didn`t vote you down but you`re wrong)

"Much of the moral fervor behind the drive for equality of outcome comes from the widespread belief that it is not fair that some children should have a great advantage over others simply because they happen to have wealthy parents. Of course it is not fair. However, unfairness can take many forms. It can take the form of the inheritance of property—bonds and stocks, houses, factories; it can also take the form of the inheritance of talent—musical ability, strength, mathematical genius. The inheritance of property can be interfered with more readily than the inheritance of talent. But from an ethical point of view, is there any difference between the two? Yet many people resent the inheritance of property but not the inheritance of talent.

Look at the same issue from the point of view of the parent. If you want to assure your child a higher income in life, you can do so in various ways. You can buy him (or her) an education that will equip him to pursue an occupation yielding a high income; or you can set him up in a business that will yield a higher income than he could earn as a salaried employee; or you can leave him property, the income from which will enable him to live better. Is there any ethical difference among these three ways of using your property? Or again, if the state leaves you any money to spend over and above taxes, should the state permit you to spend it on riotous living but not to leave it to your children?

The ethical issues involved are subtle and complex. They are not to be resolved by such simplistic formulas as "fair shares for all." Indeed, if we took that seriously, youngsters with less musical skill should be given the greatest amount of musical training in order to compensate for their inherited disadvantage, and those with greater musical aptitude should be prevented from having access to good musical training; and similarly with all other categories of inherited personal qualities. That might be "fair" to the youngsters lacking in talent, but would it be "fair" to the talented, let alone to those who had to work to pay for training the youngsters lacking talent, or to the persons deprived of the benefits that might have come from the cultivation of the talents of the gifted?"
---Milton Friedman, "Free To Choose"

|_Shifty_| : LVL 19: VP 2.8: said:

|_Shifty_|

3 votes NegativePositive

388 days 18 hours ago...

fu@# me, we dont have this problem in Australia..., we have much simpler problems, lol

Irghey : LVL 11: VP 2: said:

Irghey

0 votes NegativePositive

388 days 17 hours ago...

Geroge Bush is the smarted man of all human kind. Why not give him our Liberties, life, and our possessions. Rember 9/11. We should all bow down to or great and powerful leaders. For what we are “only the poor foke, and we have no rights” (George Bush). Lets all give up or first born son for not God but the US government because 9/11. Did I forget. 9/11 happened.

Irghey : LVL 11: VP 2: said:

Irghey

1 votes NegativePositive

388 days 17 hours ago...

Fucking ass eating goverment

CockAsian_311 : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

CockAsian_311

-1 votes NegativePositive

388 days 17 hours ago...

If you found this refreshing, go read ANY book written by Ayn Rand, or published by the Ayn Rand Institute.

fdrazmataz : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

fdrazmataz

0 votes NegativePositive

388 days 9 hours ago...

Mark333:
"Is there any ethical difference among these three ways of using your property?"

In a way, yes, although the question misses the point. The issue isn`t between those three choices, but between leaving your offspring as custodians of a fortune or equipping them to seek their own. Between leaving them privileged or leaving them in a position to better contribute to society and thus earn their own privileges.

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